What should I do with this knowledge?

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Thank you so much Winter25 and Suzie
My solicitor has now emailed the local authority the above and has raised the concern of attendance. My daughter has had 8 days off school since September and openly told me that her Nan overslept. I strongly suspect that on a good day, my mother might retract what she said and then say it again in future. This is detrimental to my little X who turned up at mine with her friend as part of a day out in town. I don’t live anywhere near town I think she just wanted to see me. I told her not to do it again, but her little face she’s been given the right to go to town quite young I think and although she had a friend with her, I was uneasy. I will wait for the LA solicitor who is from USA and very rude. I cannot thank you enough for your empathy and knowledge ladies x

Dear HopingMamu

Thank you very much for your latest post. This is Suzie, Family Rights Group’s online adviser.

I am glad to hear that your solicitor has addressed in writing your concerns about your daughter’s attendance. It is important that the local authority have a full record of the different issues.

Your daughter turned up unexpectedly at your home with her friend recently. This was some distance from town where she was meant to be. You told her not to do it again which was very responsible. You are worried about the freedom she has to go out without an adult. Did you let her social worker know about this also? As your daughter is looked after then her social worker needs to be kept updated about any unplanned visits and to make sure that your daughter’s carer is aware of her whereabouts so that she is safe. You felt uneasy about the situation which is relevant.

I am sorry that you find the local authority solicitor to be rude. There is no need for any professionals to be rude, they should behave respectfully to parents and professionals alike. You could mention this to your solicitor if you feel that is appropriate.

Best wishes

Suzie

[HopingMamu]

Hello Suzie
There is a PEP review and care planning meeting next week. I am going to raise it then. My cpn never got invited to these meetings to begin with and after I raised it- she now is. My daughter’s father attempted to shame me by saying that I need a nurse for everything. It wasn’t because of that atall- but I stopped requesting her to be present and felt I could hold my
Own. I see my cpn as more of a second witness in these meetings.this one will likely be the last
Before court and I felt so
Nervous about
It because of the recent concerns I’ve raised. Believe it or not- but the SW does let it show when she feels slighted. I’ve a horrible feeling that everything will be presented as ok! Can
You understand how hard it is to listen to that without my heart sinking. I also feel that whatever I raise will be shrugged off as pure madness. I work on
An
Acute mental health ward and always feel very hurt by the general
View of such poorly
People. It’s almost like they think, she lost her mind and therefore nothing is valid. I’m
Sorry to be so emotional and frank, but I am really dreading this meeting. It honestly feels like a panel
Of enemies with nobody even
Partially neutral. It is not that way in
Court. At the last hearing… the independent SW who did my
Parenting assessment found that rehabilitation was possible with support. My ex refused mediation and a concern
Of hers was the family conflict. There is no conflict bc we don’t speak.
She then did a 180 and said that she didn’t support me in her addendum basically regurgitating the archaic guardians ideas.
Said SW then retired and declared that now she has retired. She will not attend court for cross examination. Judge hit the roof! “Oh she is” he said
“Order her to court and unless she is gravely ill, she will be here”
It seems that the only person who was pro rehabilitation suddenly changed her mind and therefore nothing judge can see it.
I mentioned her age and that fact that this parenting assessment is really out of date being done in
December 24. The judge is very conscious of the public purse and he is such a fair judge.
I am lucky enough to know his MO well as he completed my divorce finances alongside this case and awarded in my favour. This care order case is far more complicated and I do wish I had represented myself, but it’s nearly over now and I personally cannot wait to speak in
Court. Sorry about waffling/ I could talk for hours about this whole nightmare. You and winter are a great comfort to me
Thank you
Sincerely

[Winter25]

I understand why you’re dreading this meeting. What you’re describing is a very real dynamic in care planning meetings and it can feel like a room full of professionals presenting a polished version of “everything is stable” while you’re trying to speak about the reality underneath it.

The first thing I want to mention is having your CPN attend is not a weakness. It’s also not “a nurse for everything”. It’s a professional witness who can help make sure your points are heard, recorded properly, and not dismissed as “emotion”. You did the right thing insisting she’s invited along

What will help you most in that meeting is keeping your contributions very factual and very structured, because it makes it harder for anyone to wave it away as“overthinking”.

If you go in with three or four clear points and repeat them calmly, you will be heard, even if they try to deflect.

A practical way to approach it is as follows

Start with the child, not the adults
I’m concerned about X’s wellbeing and stability. These are the specific issues I need recorded and addressed.

Ask for what you want recorded in the minutes
Could I ask that the following points are recorded in the minutes as matters raised by me today.

Stick to what is objectively evidenced
Attendance: X has missed days due to Nan oversleeping.
Supervision: X travelled to see me with a friend despite me living nowhere near town, which raises oversight concerns.
Placement stability: I have been told the carer has expressed she cannot cope. My solicitor has asked for confirmation/disclosure.

Those aren’t opinions OK, They’re observable facts. That is your safest ground.

On the fear that everything will be presented as “ok”:
That is exactly why you keep bringing it back to the same core question.

"Is this placement safe, stable and sustainable for X long-term, and what is the contingency plan if it is not?"

You’re not asking them to agree with you emotionally here, You’re asking them to answer a welfare question they cannot avoid forever.

On being dismissed because of your past mental health:
That stigma is real. But the way you neutralise it is by consistently showing the court and professionals the same pattern: stable, measured, child-focused, and evidence-led.

You work on an acute ward. You know better than anyone that having been unwell in the past does not make a person unreliable forever. Your past does not erase your credibility now. The fact you can speak this clearly, with this level of insight, already shows how far you’ve come.

On the independent social worker and the judge:
What you described about the judge insisting she attends is important. Judges do not do that unless they feel something matters and they are not satisfied with professionals trying to sidestep scrutiny. Keep that in mind when you start feeling powerless. You are not imagining what you are seeing. The judge has already shown he will challenge it.

If it helps, you can prepare a short written note for the meeting, just a page, with:

the three key facts
the three questions you want answered
the one outcome you want: clarity on placement stability and contingency planning

Then if you feel overwhelmed, you read it word for word.

You are allowed to be nervous. This is heavy. But you are not walking into that room with “nothing”. You have evidence, you have a solicitor who has now put the issue in writing, and you have your own voice. Use all of this

=====
For full transparency, I am not an official adviser. I am a parent with lived experience of the family court system, offering strategic guidance. Always consult with a solicitor regarding ongoing court proceedings.

[HopingMamu]

Thank you Winter
There is a dead silence concerning the placement. I always ask for the minutes, but I never get them. The IRO rang me about six weeks ago and asked was there anything I felt I wanted to comment in her review. I said that I was very concerned about my swan and after saying she would get back to me, she never did. Honestly Winter… they treat me like I’m a monster who they must protect swan from. I can remember that the day SS came (pre-loaded) by my mother’s lies. There’s no food here she said. I explained that I didn’t trust any appliances because the house needed rewiring and things were tripping the circuits. This was true, but I had lost trust in the whole home! It was dangerous to me and me and Swan (her nickname) spent most of our time outside. We ate breakfast, lunch and and dinner outside. Sometimes sandwiches, smoothies and sometimes wherever had offers etc. she remarked that it was alright for some. I had just let a fully paid for holiday go by, out of fear. I lost thousands. She saw our suitcases open bc we were clothing ourselves from them daily
Handwashing smalls etc.
I did not matter what I said
She looked like she hated me. The next day she came with the police who nearly broke my arm and I never even resisted-She was gone, I was having some type of shaking fit in the police station
I think I was in shock
Child neglect, never charged, just shipped to hospital. I’m afraid I see glimpses of the original social worker in
Other professionals in the case.
I had bathed her that day, I had combed her thigh length hair and done double plaits, I’ll never forget what she was wearing- a vision in pastels.we had eaten and were out collecting flowers for our flower press. It happened. Unfortunately
Restricting food
Isolating
Filling her mind with nonsense, were the grounds to make the order, but I could see the judge was uneasy. Love just isn’t enough and even though I wasn’t the high functioning mum I had always been, I was still doing ok. I needed help to get medication and the house wired… it lead to me giving up my home. Sorry to waffle again, but these people who are in
Our lives have no idea. Your advice is precious x

[Winter25]

I’m really glad you came back and wrote this, even though I know it was painful to type. What you’ve described explains so much about why the silence and the lack of minutes feels so frightening for you, it isn’t just procedural frustration, it’s trauma being re-triggered.

First, I want to say this nothing you’ve written sounds like a monster in anyway shape or form. It sounds like a mother who was struggling, asking for help, and instead was met with judgement, assumptions, and force, you are not the first this has happened to and you wont be the last . That kind of experience doesn’t just disappear because time has passed, it leaves marks. It makes silence feel dangerous, because silence once meant something terrible was happening behind closed doors.

The dead silence about placement is not accidental, and it’s not because your concerns are “mad or unstable.” It’s because placement stability is the one thing the local authority does not want scrutinised too closely unless they are forced to. When minutes aren’t shared, when the IRO doesn’t come back to you, when concerns are acknowledged verbally and then vanish, that what we call containment, not transparency.

You did the right thing speaking to the IRO. The fact she didn’t follow up isn’t a reflection on you; it reflects how uncomfortable your concerns are for the system. An IRO’s role is to challenge drift and ensure the child’s welfare is central. When they go quiet after concerns are raised, that tells you those concerns matter.

What you described about the original social worker is also important, not to relitigate the past, but because patterns repeat. When a parent has once been framed as neglectful or dangerous, later professionals often unconsciously slot them back into that role unless the narrative is actively challenged, this happened we me in a different way, using past to say its the future and present. That’s why you’re so attuned to “glimpses” of the original worker in others.

You needing help with medication, housing safety, or functioning during a period of illness is not neglect. Eating outdoors because you didn’t trust unsafe appliances is not starving a child. Losing a home because you were overwhelmed is not malice either. None of those things erase the love, care, routine, and connection you clearly had with Swan. The judge’s unease back then wasn’t accidental at all it was because the picture being painted didn’t quite sit right.

Right now, the most important thing for you is this: you are not back there. You are not that unwell woman in shock at the police station. You are articulate, reflective, regulated, and fiercely child-focused. Every post you write shows insight, not delusion.

If the placement truly were as settled and sustainable as it’s being implied, there would be no reason to avoid minutes, no reason to dodge your questions, no reason for silence. Stability can withstand scrutiny. Fragility cannot.

Also please don’t apologise for waffling. What you wrote wasn’t waffle. It was context and the more you say the bigger the picture becomes
=======
For full transparency, I am not an official adviser. I am a parent with lived experience of the family court system, offering strategic guidance. Always consult with a solicitor regarding ongoing court proceedings.

[HopingMamu]

I had good news this week about Swan’s therapy and advocate. As we see- now that ‘carer’ is struggling it’s all been fast tracked and she was seen this week by her advocate and next week by Therapy. My middle son Bopsy did remark on how quickly it has been actioned. Bopsy lives with me and has submitted a statement to the court to support our case. Bopsy and swan have a lovely bond which is unusual due to the 10 year age gap. It’s lovely to see and they are also identical in looks, so I’m often
Comforted by his face.
Also (last night) my solicitor came back with the LA’s response.. I had asked him not to send the exact thing to me, because it’ll cause trauma responses. As expected they have came back with excuse that carer did report that she could not cope, but this was said because she had just learned that her brother in law had cancer and Sean’s behaviour that day.
My child joking said to her carer, if you told them you had cancer they would let me go back to my mum.
This was apparently reported to an intervention worker by carer, who said it was concerning.
The attendance had taken a dip LATELY and carer is well engaged and supported.
I asked swan on the way to school this morning and she said it was partially true, but words had been changed and that they had laughed together about it.
I think they have hit back with a bit of heresay and I ofcourse told swan that it’s never funny to joke about serious illness. Emails from school do not lie and I expect that I will be removed from notifications in future. I have now responded to my solicitor and said that what Swanny said (as I see it) is the manifestation of a deep wish and fantasy to be home. I know that she would never wish ill for family, but I bet my little girl has lay there at night thinking of every possibility to take her away from where she is. This cancer situation with Swan great uncle in law should not be banded about like it is, she has heard many conversations which I believe have desensitised swan to the illness and its severity. I don’t feel like raising this was in vain, but I think they are one step ahead. Thank you so much again Winter25, messages from you are such a valuable read

[Winter25]

You are very welcome , I am glad the information is of help or even comfort.

The fast-tracking of your daughters advocate and therapy is not accidental. You and your son are right to notice how quickly that suddenly moved. That usually happens when professionals are no longer fully confident that a placement is emotionally holding, and they need additional support around the child’s voice and wellbeing. It doesn’t mean they think you’re wrong however, it means Swan’s internal world is now being taken seriously.

The bond you describe between you and your children is also important, even if it hasn’t been spoken about much yet. Sibling attachment, especially where there’s emotional attunement and a sense of safety, is something courts do care about. The fact he has felt strongly enough to submit a statement says a lot, and it gives her a voice through someone who knows her deeply and lives outside the placement narrative.

On the local authority’s response, I want to be very clear with you here. What they’ve done is contain, not disprove. Saying that the carer “couldn’t cope” because of external stressors or a bad day is a classic way of reframing a disclosure so it doesn’t destabilise the care plan. It doesn’t cancel out the original concern, it just repackages it. And importantly, they are still acknowledging that the statement was made. That matters.

The incident about Swan’s comment regarding cancer needs careful handling emotionally. Children who feel powerless often express wishes in distorted or fantastical ways, not because they are unkind or manipulative, but because they are trying to imagine a route back to safety., this happens a lot . You naming this as a manifestation of longing, not malice, is the right interpretation. Courts and psychologists understand this far better than social work reports sometimes do.

It’s also very telling that Swan herself says the words were changed and that there was laughter at the time. That fits with a child experimenting with language, not expressing a risk concern. The fact you corrected her gently and explained why serious illness isn’t something to joke about shows appropriate parental guidance, not minimisation.

You are right that none of this means raising the issue was in vain. It forced movement. It brought advocacy and therapy forward and It exposed how tightly the placement narrative is being managed. And it’s now on the record that Swan is expressing a strong emotional pull towards home, even if others are trying to frame that differently.

I know it can feel like they are always one step ahead, but remember this: systems can control paperwork, not truth. Children’s feelings leak out, in comments, in behaviour, in therapy, in advocacy. Those things don’t disappear just because an explanation is written around them.

Please try not to let this response convince you that you were wrong to speak up. You weren’t. You’ve acted consistently, proportionately, and with Swan’s emotional welfare at the centre.

And finally, the fact that you asked your solicitor not to send the response verbatim because you know your own trauma responses is not weakness. That is insight and self-protection.

[HopingMamu]

Hello
Thank you again for your concise approach to advice.
The meeting wasn’t as long as I thought and my ex didn’t attend, which I was happy about. The SW asked a Teacher to go to Swans lesson and invite her to join us- she declined, but I was shocked because this has never happened before. Carer said everything is fine and that swan won’t eat much and that she ‘refuses’ to attend school sometimes.
Attendance was 92% with a total of 7 unauthorised and 5 authorised. They did not seem to worried about it. Carer lied and said the phone was engaged
I mentioned that Swan had a detention for homework not handed in. I rang the teacher who had issued it as a behaviour alert and he explained that swan is a good girl and it’s unheard of for her- she had got the sheet wet in her bag, discarded it and thought she would get away with it. He said he would give her extra time and I new sheet and once handed in- the detention would be cancelled. I was praised by the head for good communication skills and if more parents were like me etc. it’s called being proactive. To give my
Mother a tiny bit of credit, why would she want to be chasing people at nearly 70, how could she treat her as I would. Sean
Had asked for an
Extra sleep a month and this was skirted over. Carer explained that she does not know how to text or make dentist and optician appointments because it’s all done on my eldest sons phone who is currently travelling in Australia. My son will not be back
Until July…. Of course everybody there offered to assist her. Well I never want to get into the habit of woe and things not being fair. It’s futile and makes a person look infantile. I am never emotional, always calm… I even surprise myself… because just below the surface I could cry a river just typing this, if I see happy family’s I’m
Either in awe or hurt. I’m wise enough to know that with digging deep, positivity and a few good people, you can overcome trauma in time- until it’s a mild sting and not a gaping sore wound. I suppose the upside of separating lovebirds is that it can stop one or both preening each other within an inch of their lives, but they belong together and should be.
Thank you W x

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Hello
Thank you again for your concise approach to advice.
The meeting wasn’t as long as I thought and my ex didn’t attend, which I was happy about. The SW asked a Teacher to go to Swans lesson and invite her to join us- she declined, but I was shocked because this has never happened before. Carer said everything is fine and that swan won’t eat much and that she ‘refuses’ to attend school sometimes.
Attendance was 92% with a total of 7 unauthorised and 5 authorised. They did not seem to worried about it. Carer lied and said the phone was engaged
I mentioned that Swan had a detention for homework not handed in. I rang the teacher who had issued it as a behaviour alert and he explained that swan is a good girl and it’s unheard of for her- she had got the sheet wet in her bag, discarded it and thought she would get away with it. He said he would give her extra time and I new sheet and once handed in- the detention would be cancelled. I was praised by the head for good communication skills and if more parents were like me etc. it’s called being proactive. To give my
Mother a tiny bit of credit, why would she want to be chasing people at nearly 70, how could she treat her as I would. Sean
Had asked for an
Extra sleep a month and this was skirted over. Carer explained that she does not know how to text or make dentist and optician appointments because it’s all done on my eldest sons phone who is currently travelling in Australia. My son will not be back
Until July…. Of course everybody there offered to assist her. Well I never want to get into the habit of woe and things not being fair. It’s futile and makes a person look infantile. I am never emotional, always calm… I even surprise myself… because just below the surface I could cry a river just typing this, if I see happy family’s I’m
Either in awe or hurt. I’m wise enough to know that with digging deep, positivity and a few good people, you can overcome trauma in time- until it’s a mild sting and not a gaping sore wound. I suppose the upside of separating lovebirds is that it can stop one or both preening each other within an inch of their lives, but they belong together and should be.
Thank you W x

Dear HopingMamu,

This is Suzie, an online adviser for Family Rights Group. Thank you for your recent posts. I will respond broadly to each of them here. I won't go into each detail that you raise, but in reading through your posts I have been impressed by the sincerity of your tone and your ability to put your daughter's needs and feelings first and foremost.

I am concerned that you have not heard back from the independent reviewing officer, despite being assured that the issue you raise were being explored. If further attempts to gain a response and receive the review minutes are not successful you could consider making a formal complaint. You can read about the complaints process here.

Family Rights Group have web pages that set out how children's services should work with parents who have experienced mental ill-health, now or in the past. You can link to this here.

It's understandable that you are overwhelmed at times in meetings and interactions with children's services, given your traumatic experiences and I am glad that you have some support from the CPN. I am sending you a link to the Family Rights Group guide to working with advocates here so that you can think about you an best be supported to find your way through these challenges and have your voice heard so that your daughter's wellbeing is the focus of everyone involved.

I hope that this brief response was of some help to you. Please feel free to post again here or contact us in another way for advice.

You can call our free, confidential adviceline on 0808 801 0366 (Monday to Friday, 9:30am – 3pm) to speak in person with an adviser. We also have a webchat which is currently open on Monday and Thursday afternoons, and an advice enquiry form.

Best wishes,
Suzie

[Winter25]

That update actually contains a lot of quiet “wins”, even if it didn’t feel satisfying in the moment.

The teacher being sent to invite Swan, and Swan declining, is unusual for you but it isn’t automatically negative. It often happens when professionals are trying to evidence that the child was given the opportunity to have a voice. Her declining can simply be recorded as her choice. What matters is whether anyone tries to twist that into “avoidance” or “lack of engagement”. If that happens later, the calm answer is: she was invited, she chose not to attend, and that choice should be respected as part of her autonomy.

The attendance point is also telling. 92% with a mixture of authorised and unauthorised absences is not what “serious concern” looks like in most settings, and the fact they weren’t worried suggests they aren’t building a case around education neglect. If they were, it would have dominated the meeting.

On the food / “won’t eat much” comment i would be careful with that one. Carers sometimes casually describe picky eating as “refusal”, and it can become a narrative if nobody grounds it. If Swan’s eating is genuinely small/variable, that’s usually an emotional wellbeing flag (anxiety, low mood, unsettled placement) rather than “bad behaviour”. That’s exactly where therapy is meant to sit.

The homework incident is a perfect example of normal child behaviour and good parenting response. The key detail is the teacher describing Swan as a “good girl” and it being “unheard of”. That’s gold, because it shows she’s generally settled and well-regarded at school. If anything gets exaggerated later, you can always come back to: one-off lapse, repaired quickly, school supportive.

On your mum’s age and admin struggles (texts, dentist/optician): this is where you need to keep drawing a quiet line between “support needed” and “support being patched over”. Everyone offering to assist is fine , but it also reinforces your original point that this placement requires additional scaffolding. That isn’t you being dramatic; it’s the adults in the room acknowledging it.

Where I think you should focus next is recording and minutes, because without paperwork you get stuck in “nothing to see here” territory. A practical move is to start sending short follow-up emails after each meeting: “Thank you for today. Please confirm X, Y, Z were noted.”

If you want a simple structure for what you follow up in writing, keep it to three things:

Swan was invited to join and declined; this should be recorded as her choice, not a concern.

Attendance is currently 92% (7 unauthorised, 5 authorised) and was not treated as a safeguarding issue in the meeting.

Support needs in placement (appointments/admin) were discussed and offers of assistance were made.

On the “phone engaged” lie , I completely get the urge to call it out, but the safest way is to avoid emotion and stick to verifiable facts. Something like: “For clarity, I attempted contact and was unable to reach the carer.” Let the pattern speak for itself rather than giving them a conflict narrative.

And lastly, what you said about not wanting to become “woe is me” , I hear you I really do, but don’t confuse grief with weakness. You’re not being infantile when you name what hurts. You’re being honest. The strength is that you keep it child-focused and factual when it matters OK

I have drafted an email as well you can use

---
Subject: Follow-up, review minutes, and IRO response

Dear [Social Worker / IRO / Chair’s name],

Thank you for meeting with me today. I am writing to follow up on the meeting and to ensure my understanding of what was discussed is accurate, and that this is properly reflected in the records.

My understanding from the meeting is as follows:

Swan was invited to attend part of the meeting via her teacher but chose not to do so. This was her decision and should be recorded as such.

Swan’s current school attendance is approximately 92%, with a mix of authorised and unauthorised absences, and this was not raised as a safeguarding concern during the meeting.

The recent homework detention was discussed and clarified with school as a one-off incident, which has since been resolved with appropriate support.

It was acknowledged that practical support is currently being offered to the carer in relation to appointments and communication, due to existing difficulties with administration.

Requests raised regarding additional rest/sleep arrangements were noted during the meeting.

In addition, I would like to follow up on the review process. Around six weeks ago, the Independent Reviewing Officer contacted me to ask whether there was anything I wished to raise for consideration at review. I shared my concerns at that time and was advised I would be contacted again, however I have not received any further response or update.

Please could you therefore also confirm:

When I will receive the minutes from the most recent meeting(s); and

Whether the concerns I raised with the IRO have been considered and recorded, and if so how these will be addressed.

If anything in the above is not an accurate reflection of what was discussed, I would be grateful if you could let me know.

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your response.

Kind regards,