Interim care order - what should I so?

[Mossie20]

I have tried asking about why when the threshold would never have had our son removed why he doesn't come home. It just shows social workers can lie to get what they want even when its then proven they lied or were wrong.
She said now we are in proceedings the threshold doesn't matter? is this true or does she just not to the grief of it?
Surely we have grounds to appeal the ICO when its proven he should never have been removed?
Even if we agree to the all of the threshold which we do not it wasn't grounds to remove
He was never harmed and there is nothing to say he was, he was seen by Health visitors 3 times a week
They just keep going on about mental health and our relationship both of which the social worker has said they couldn't have removed him for. Neither are actually a problem.

We have already had a therapist who has done many letter for court cases say that it is unlikely we would cause harm to our son but they have completely ignored that part.

I have an appointment with my solicitor tomorrow to respond to the threshold but then theres nothing we can do except wait for a psychologist appointment.

[KatKat10]

Hi Mossie

Have you requested copies of your maternity records from the hospital? If not I would do this, you can do it under a subject of access request from the hospital. If your pregnancy was a healthy pregnancy and you turned up for all appointments, including scans and blood tests this will act as positive evidence. Social workers like to speculate that mothers are drinking and smoking during pregnancy etc, but scans and blood tests will demonstrate normal fetus development, healthy birth weight and other observations during antenatal care.

Mental Health issues is something the SW's like to throw in and it is very undermining. Have as much factual evidence as you can to present to the court, especially evidence you can use to expose any lies and untruths.

Guardians are a bit hit and miss and luck of the draw. The are appointed by the court but are social workers themselves but not affiliated with a particular local authority.

KK10

[Mossie20]

My solicitor has them I have asked for them but she’s still never sent them
It was a healthy pregnancy until the last month, I could hardly feel them move and they didn’t know why and then on the last growth scan their growth had slowed but I was already being induced the next day
He was induced early and most likely earlier than they thought
I attended all appointment and was at the assessment unit a lot at the end
My pregnancy has never been a concern to them
I have never smoked and have never drank much and haven’t had anything for years I’ve never been accused of anything like that social services only became involved when my son was about 10 weeks old over his weight which the expert disagrees with
He was a low birth weight but was premature

They are obsessed with mental heath, I had anxiety but that was over his health issues and COVID
I have given evidence that the social worker who removed him lied and now he is suddenly on sick leave but no one seems to care that he lied but the local authority has an inadequate ofsted and do not want to admit they were wrong
The service manager has said they shouldn’t be involved and we aren’t the usual family they are involved with multiple times

The new guardian is a massive improvement on the last two
She knows the last social worker so hopefully that will help as no one has a good word to say about him

[KatKat10]

Hi Mossie
If your solicitor is not forthcoming with documents, then request copies yourself as there is not a cost involved. I would do the same with the social services, a subject of access request for every piece of data they hold on you.

My experience of the SS is that they like to twist things. Remember they are not qualified medically and cannot speculate on medical matters. Any evidence has to come from professional qualified medical experts. The fact you have the evidence on record that you were induced and your child was born premature.

The SS appear to be oblivious to Covid and lockdown and the problems that people have had adapting and long term effects. I am sure at one point they tried to imply that I had not socialized my younger child. It would have been illegal for me to socialize my child with other children during lockdown and restrictions.

It is interesting your former social worker is on sick leave, or is that a cover for investigation/gardening leave? I did not realize that the SS are subject to Ofsted inspections, I might look into this.

Work with your guardian and work on all the positives and good luck.

KK10

[Mossie20]

She is always busy and probably has genuinely just forgotten.

They are brilliant at twisting things, they tried to twist me not wanting to overdose my son as the dosage had changed as it was a special order. He had all his other medication and as soon as the dosage was clarified he had it. They tried to imply I just didn’t bother. Yet when I tell anyone even nurses they understood.

The expert has said that he was too young to even diagnose with failure to thrive and disagreed that his weight gain was inadequate feeding and acknowledged his health problems and being prem where the consultant didn’t. But the same consultant who is a gastro specialist left him constipated for nearly 4 months, she wouldn’t even do an x ray despite nurses and a breast feeding specialist saying he needed one that something wasn’t right and expected me to leave him a week before giving a suppository but in hospital they only lest him 3 days.

They have tried to say that he is at risk of isolation with me, the only reason I don’t go out much is I don’t want to see someone I know and them ask where he is. I was looking at playgroups before he was born and baby swimming sessions.

I used to get asked if I had support when as you said it was illegal to see more than one household. Luckily health visitors never mentioned covid rules.
I did see people who were tested and my mum wasn’t going to choose between her daughters who to see, we both had children and she was there when my son was born. But technically she should have only being seeing one of us. none of us had covid until recently and I have still not thankfully.

He was also to young to socialise and play with others he was only just under 5 months so they.

Covid suited them when it came to contact limiting it to once a week. The old social worker even tried to stop us seeing him on his first birthday but his service manger wasn't happy about that. It was then we realised he was trying to keep contact to a minimum for no reason.

99% certain it is a cover as he has no excuse for what he said, it seems very convenient, there was no misunderstanding, he said my son lost weight twice when his red book shows he didn’t, but his manager clearly didn’t check that things matched up. He told my mum that my son was 14 days from being a fatality which no doctor or report has ever said he was just trying to scare her and doubt me. His manager had no idea he had said this and asked why I hadn’t said before, I told her I have no proof so what’s the point. He was witnessed by another social worker telling me if I was hit by a bus I couldn’t feed my son anyway which she said herself was inappropriate and she was shocked, but it was never officially reported by her. They all just cover for each other, its disgusting. Even Barristers say this shouldn’t even be in court and that whatever social workers say gets believed.

Yes they have been inadequate since 2019 and it clear why. They don’t put the children first its just about the win to them. But you get children who are genuinely neglected, screamed at in the street and clearly not wanted, but because they never seek any treatment its not flagged. The only reason concerns were raised with my son is because I raised concerns over his health. If I had never taken him to the hospital we wouldn’t be in the situation we are. The Gp had no concerns about him.

The new guardian said the contact she came too was really nice, she said this to a barrister so not just to us, actually speaks to us and doesn’t just sweep the lies under the carpet. She says they are important and said she can’t rule out him coming home like the previous guardian. But its all going to end up being about what the psychologist says.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear Mossie20,

Thank you for your further posts. As I have previously explained I cannot comment on whether you have grounds to appeal the ICO or not. Your solicitor is best placed to advise you regarding this as they have all the details of the case.

You may find this booklet written by Rights of Women helpful; please see the section under ‘Timescales’ on page 5. This explains that when appealing an ICO decision the appeal should be made within 7 days of the order being made. Although it may be possible that exceptions can be made, in your case the order was made some time ago so is out of timescale for appeal.

I hope that the above is of some help. Please post again if you have any further queries or you can call our free confidential helpline on 0808 801 0366 (Monday to Friday, 9:30am – 3pm) to speak with one of our advisers.

Best wishes,
Suzie

[Mossie20]

Hi, when the order was made we didn't have the expert report, it was all just based on the lies social services told.
My barrister said that even if we agreed to all of the new threshold (as they have had to change it due to evidence and their own admission it wasn't met) that it wouldn't be grounds to remove our son.
The points are very generic and could be said about any parent, potential risks none proven. He has never been harmed in our care, not physically or emotionally.
Why when the threshold has been disproven, the new one isn't enough and the social worker is also proven to have lied do proceedings continue? why is an appeal even needed?

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear Mossie20,

Thank you for your post.

As I have suggested previously, I think it would be most useful if you speak to your solicitor about this question, who is best positioned to explain why proceedings are continuing.

Best wishes,

Suzie.

[Mossie20]

Hi, I have tried but all I get is that because we are already in proceedings the fact the threshold isn't met and lies have been proven is irrelevant
She never says whether there is anything we can do
I have asked about unsupervised but she just says it is uncommon, but we have never harmed our son and there is no evidence that we have
the accusation was that he wasn't fed enough where the expert disagrees with
All contact reports are positive, there is no reason for contact to be supervised
would the guardian have a say in this? she wants more contact which still hasn't happened yet

Also if my sister who is looking after our son is found to have lied to the guardian will we still be expected to have her as a support?

We now have to have a paternity test as apparently new information has come to light questioning paternity. There will be no evidence as there is not a chance anyone else is my sons father as there has been no one else and I fell pregnant just weeks after getting married.
We are 99% that it is spiteful lies from my sister who has lied through out proceedings and recently admitted to smacking her own children during a review which she repeatedly denied before. A lot of what she has said is the reason things have gone on so long as she is always believed. Will the fact she is now admitted to lying make any difference?

Thank you

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear Mossie20,

Thank you for your further post.

I am sorry that you are feeling frustrated about the response you get from your solicitor, however I cannot offer any further advice regarding that particular matter.

You say that the guardian has recommended more contact between you and your child, however no agreement has been reached regarding this with children’s services. You also want to know if the guardian could recommend unsupervised contact. An interim care plan should have been put together which details (amongst other things) contact arrangements. This should be regularly reviewed throughout the care proceedings process. The views of professionals (including the guardian) would be considered but children’s services will need to be in agreement that they feel that increasing contact, or introducing unsupervised contact, would be in the best interests of the child. If you are unhappy with the level of contact at the moment then the first thing to do would be to talk with the social worker about it. Next you could raise your concerns with the independent reviewing officer, either at the next looked after child review or before if necessary. Finally you could speak with your solicitor and ask them to raise your concerns in court. You can find more information on our website HERE about contact arrangements for children when care proceedings are in process.

Finally, you say that your sister (the carer for your child) has recently said that she hits her own children when previously she denied this. You would like to know what the consequences of this might be. Physical abuse is something that children’s services should take very seriously – you can find more information on our website HERE about this. If your sister has been found to have lied then this will raise concerns about her ability to work openly and honestly with children’s services, as well as whether there are any other things that she has been untruthful about. This information should all be taken into consideration in any assessments that children’s services are completing on your sister.

I hope that this is of some help. Please post again if you would like any further advice or you can call our free confidential helpline on 0808 801 0366 (Monday to Friday, 9:30am – 3pm) to speak with an adviser.

Best wishes,
Suzie