We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Cat
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 12:15 pm

We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by Cat » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:59 am

I have thought about this for so long and been too whimpy to act on it.
Reading stories on here is making me so angry. And taking our kids is something we will never learn to live with. We carnt all be wrong !!! And it's getting alot worse. Not only do they treat us wrong and kill our confidence as people, they seem to call the shots with the other idots involved such as the guardians.
I think we should all vote our advisor be the leader on here and lead a protest if she can. Something has to be done because these social workers involved with us are wrong and get more cocky and more nasty. I'am going cos i don't know if I'll get told off for putting this on here. Surely something will at least start if we are all outside the ministry of justices office. Or anywhere else that Ruffles feathers. The laws that get broken by some professionals need to be brought to light. And taking our kids is more harmful when we haven't done anything to deserve it. Also it destroys our children. But they get removed and forgot by these power loving low lives. And us parents and other family members are left in bits.

swim
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:07 am

Re: We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by swim » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:34 am

Maybe start a crowdfunder to raise awareness (advertising funds) and start an online government petition? There wouldn't be the numbers without getting awareness. I think the two issues are 1: secrecy rules - sure there are some cases that need this, but it should be the the rare exception: "J, J & J vs never-never-land county council" wouldn't identify anyone.

2: Social workers should work under pubic, not family law. If the police could charge you for getting into a car (due to the potential of a risk of significant harm, ie a car crash) or charge you for "lacking insight" by contesting the charges that would clearly be injustice.

Cat
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by Cat » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:07 pm

So sorry I've not been on I've been stuck in bed. I have 2 stay logged on cos I'll never get back on again. I'll do anything because they have genuinely destroyed my life xxx

Cat
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by Cat » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:10 pm

Hey swim a petition is the first thing defo. Good 1 xxx

Cat
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by Cat » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:30 pm

I'am no good at all this tecno stuff and getlost. Could swim and runnermum get in touch please cc

swim
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:07 am

Re: We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by swim » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:48 am

At this stage we need to refine a simple, powerful change the government could make that would make a difference. I've previously suggested making family court cases published by default unless an independent Judge orders otherwise - identifiable details should be anonymised. It's important for everyone to give their own ideas though - mine might not be the most effective solution. The theory is that public scrutiny would pressure Councils and Judges alike to act responsibly, as well as the parents.


Practically speaking we'd start one here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/check
We would need 5 people to get it started... that's the easy part.

We require 10,000 signatures to get a response from government and 100,000 to have a chance of it being debated in parliament. While we could get a fair few people on these forums to sign their names up I think we would struggle without some sort of campaign - I imagine we'd ideally want advertisements, radio interviews, day time talk show appearances etc. An independent film maker who is just starting out may be able to make a short film (fictional) about the type of issues that can arise - that might give them access to financial grants that they otherwise might not get and be a stepping stone into their career. That'd also allow them to get on radio to discuss both our petition and their own work, everyone wins.

These petitions only run for six months and typically don't make the numbers, so it'd require a determined and co-ordinated effort. It can be done if we're smart about it and put in the time. If we can find someone influential enough a few twitter posts could easily get a large chunk of the needed signatures. Maybe there are youtube influencers who will take on our cause. My point is it can be done with some creative thinking.

Now is not the right time to push forward, with brexit and extinction rebellion taking all the news, but it's a perfect time to plan.

swim
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:07 am

Re: We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by swim » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:30 am

Hi runnermum,

I'm sure in some cases there will be a need for secrecy, which is why I suggest an independent Judge should have that option, but even celebrities can get gagging orders - I see no reason for a blanket ban on reporting. In my case secrecy was 0% to do with child protection (only myself and my wife were referenced). My experience suggests that the secrecy of the family court is used more about covering up than anything child related. Perhaps not by the Judges or the Guardians but social services hardly have a reason to be honest if their cases are automatically protected from public scrutiny.

You're right - the police have to follow "Achieving best evidence in criminal proceedings" - social workers are free to ask leading and loaded questions and use misleading answers as evidence. If they can it's inevitable they will - that's the nash equilibrium. Getting to the truth is simply not time effective and once a social worker starts feeling the pressure something has got to give, and very few will put their job security at risk.

User avatar
Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 3016
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:21 pm

Dear Swim

There have been several posts under the heading ‘We should all get together, Too many lies and wrong removals’. In the posts there is reference to social workers, their attitude, inexperience, incompetence and their belief that they are above the law.

Whilst I understand that parents and other family members may take issue with how children’s services deal with matters relating to the children in their families, I think it is important that I provide an explanation about the basis upon which children’s services operate in respect of their safeguarding role.

Firstly, I think it would be helpful for parents and others posting on this forum, to know that there are statutory guidelines to which children’s services and social workers are expected to work.

The main guidance document is the Working Together to Safeguard Children 2018 which is a government guidance that sets out the national framework for assessing and responding to children’s and family’s needs. This in turn, requires local authorities to have local safeguarding threshold documents which provides information as to the procedures social workers should follow. There are also local protocols for assessments and these should set out the guidelines which should be followed for assessments. Anyone who is being assessed can ask the social worker for a copy of the threshold document and the assessment protocol.

The working together document referred to above, provides professionals with guidance on good practice and should be referred to by social workers. It also provides a detailed outline of what a good assessment should include.

In respect of children being removed from families, I think it is important that I provide some clarification in respect of some of the points raised. It is important because I believe it would be helpful for some readers who might be worried about social workers having the power to remove children. No social worker or children’s services department has the power to remove a child from his or her family without the agreement of the parent(s) or any person with parental responsibility without their agreement and, failing that, an order of the court.

The police is the only agency that can legally remove a child to a place of safety in an emergency situation where a child is considered to be at risk. This removal can last for a period of 72 hours. After this time, if children’s services do not have agreement for the child to remain away from home, then they must apply to the court for an order. The court must be satisfied that it is necessary for children’s services to have an order to keep a child safe in the interim.

Care proceedings relate to the court process for children’s services to seek a full care order if they believe the children cannot safely remain at home. There would need to be assessments not only of parents but extended family members or friends who express their wish to be assessed. These proceedings can take 26 weeks or more if the court agrees. Before a court can make a full care order in favour of children’s services, it must be satisfied that threshold criteria is satisfied. Please see explanation of threshold and our advice sheet Care (and related) proceedings

Please also see information relating to Family and Friends Care

It is the court that makes the final decision in care proceedings about where and with whom a child should live after all the evidence has been tested (that is, by written and oral evidence) through questions and cross examination. Please see our advice sheet 15 referred to above.
Just to explain cases involving children are reported in an anonymised way already reported and are often referred to by initials, name of the local authority, the court and representatives. The court can give directions that no identifying information should be given at all.

Children’s services becomes involved with a family only after it has received a referral relating to safeguarding concerns.
Many families who work with children’s services, recognise the concerns raised and understand that children’s services also provide help and support to address the concerns which means the case does not progress to court or the removal of a child. However, failure to recognise or understand concerns could lead children’s services to conclude that it is unlikely the child or children will be safeguarded. Further action would then be considered for example, accommodation, child in need plan, initial child protection conference, pre-proceedings (PLO) and finally care proceedings may become necessary. Please see advice sheet Child protection procedures

Sometimes, one parent decides to take action and will have their child or children come live with them, which means that any perceived risk is diminished as the child or children is out of the situation. If a parent decides to do this, unless children’s services consider that it is unsafe there is very little they can do to prevent a parent exercising their parental responsibility in this way.

Regarding police investigations in respect of alleged crimes, the police are seeking evidence which would lead to a successful prosecution. The test in criminal cases is ‘beyond reasonable doubt’. Children’s services, however, are concerned with safeguarding and may take the view that although the police have insufficient evidence to proceed with a case, it does not mean that the particular thing did not happen or that no safeguarding concerns exist. The test in civil matters is ‘on the balance of probability’ that is something is more likely to have happened than not.

There are often issues raised in post on this forum that, for example, a registered sex offender who has served a sentence should be able to get on with their lives. The issue in a situation like this is not that they should not but whether there is a risk of harm and, how best to protect a child. This will, of course, depend on the specific circumstances of the family how things progress. Working with children’s services and recognising the concern is always an important factor.

It is not my role to defend children’s services or incorrect or what is seen as bad practices, which can occur in any profession or service. However, there are mechanisms in place to challenge such practices and this is the case for children's services and social workers.

If any person with parental responsibility or care of a child is dissatisfied with how their case has been handled, there are several options available. In the first instance, I would suggest that a request is made for a meeting with the allocated social worker and his or her team manager to discuss the particular concerns and to see if matters can be resolved.

Secondly, if a person remains dissatisfied then a formal complaint can be made to the local authority. Each local authority must have a written complaints procedure. For more information it may be helpful to read Challenging decisions and making complaints

I hope this clarifies the procedures involved when children’s services is concerned about a family. Should anyone wish to discuss matters with an adviser, please telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30 am to 3pm.

Best wishes

Suzie

Cat55555
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:37 pm

Re: We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by Cat55555 » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:35 pm

Hi,

I had the same my little girl was taken due to my ex malicious lies and had to live with her grandparents and a care order threshold was domestic abuse but was put in place 3 years after the relationship ended.

I was aloud my son at home to live with me as he has a different father and no paternal
Conflict on his side but my little girls father causing conflict so they class it as emotional harm.

I took it back to court to discharge under section 39 the social, ISW and cafcass agreed I did significant change ie domestic abuse courses(even if it was 3 years after I left him) and so on for my son who had repeated behaviour.

Even with meeting the criteria of section 39 and doing significant change they all opposed it due to conflict, the father was called paranoid, hostile and negative in court. Problem is it penalised me his behaviour.

For that reason I met the criteria but wouldn’t discharge due to conflict on one side.

There is no hope at all.

It’s more of a protest to parliament and a letter with petition to parliament as they created a section 39 to intend children that’s been removed to be retuned regardless of any attachment issues or how long they been away for.

Parliament made it to discharge but the courts aren’t following that section 39 law even if you meet the criteria or over and beyond that criteria.

It’s more of a petition to parliament, names, numbers and case numbers on to try get them to look at what the hells going on in the system and why courts are failing their own section laws without evidence.

As makes no sense to leave one child at home but take the other. They make up rules as they go social do.

Parliament makes all children’s laws none are actually being followed correctly leaving us mums heartbroken.

User avatar
Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 3016
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: We should all get together . Too many lies and wrong removals

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:24 pm

Dear Runnermum16

Thank you for your further post and for describing the impact that children’s services’ involvement can have on parents and family members where they don’t feel listened to or treated respectfully. You have also given specific examples of this from your own experience.

You and other parents might be interested in the Charter of Mutual Expectations , which was developed by parents, family members and practitioners as part of the Your Family Your Voice alliance. This charter aims to promote a better, more respectful, way of working. If a parent is finding the working relationship with their social worker difficult they could share this charter with them as an example of good practice. The sections on support and participation may be particularly useful as they address some of the issues you have raised including recommendations about getting independent advice and advocacy and for parents to be more actively involved in the planning and decision making processes for their children.

As you are aware, parents can make a formal complaint to children’s services if they remain dissatisfied with the support (or lack of support) received, with information that is recorded about them or about decisions or actions taken by children’s services. It can be a good idea for parents to ask for a copy of their family’s file before making a complaint. We have more information about this in our advice sheets on access to information held by children’s services and challenging decisions and making complaints. I think that you may have looked into this already and hope that you will get some answers to your concerns.

For you and any other parents involved in private law proceedings it is best to address any concerns about the evidence provided by the social worker as part of the court proceedings. Rights of Women and Child Law Advice both provide useful website information and offer telephone advice about this area of law.

I hope this helps. Thanks once again for your post.

With best wishes

Suzie

Post Reply