Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

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km2115
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:38 pm

Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

Post by km2115 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:30 pm

Hi,

Its been a little while since my last post. Great news is the paperwork to discharge my daughters care order has been sent to the court. The social worker, the children's guardian and myself want a CAO in place so their mother cannot just come along and try to take her. My daughter has lived with me through the pandemic with only video calls and my social worker is happy with the care she has with me and says they are discharging the care order as they don't need to be in my daughters life anymore.

My social worker was discussing things with the children's guardian and the guardian says she wants a supervision order in place but my daughter has lived with me since December 2018 with no issues whatsoever. My social worker says she does not think a Supervision Order is needed. I need advice about what I should do. If my social worker thinks i do not need a supervision order, can i do something about that if the children's guardian says they want one. What grounds would there be for a supervision order if the social worker says she has no concerns and she says she doesn't think one is needed. Do i need legal advice and as the paperwork is with the court and we are not required to attend, how can i say i don't think a supervision order is needed either. The social worker has been with us for over two years now so surely if she feels a supervision order is not needed, would the judge ignore that and put one in place because the guardian wants it? If the social worker had any concerns i could understand it but as she has no concerns why would the children's guardian push for a Supervision Order. Do i need legal advice?

Thank you

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:29 pm

Dear Km2115,

Welcome back to the Parent’s Forum. That is fantastic news that children services are discharging the care order. You must be so pleased, and it shows you have worked so well with children services.
Your question is about supervision orders. Here is information about supervision orders from our A to Z of terms.
As you can see, they last for 12 months but can potentially be renewed for up to another 2 years.

Supervision orders do not give children services parental responsibility (like they get with a care order).
A supervision order can replace a care order without the need for children services to prove the Threshold Criteria again. However, given how well you are doing, would this be fair and proportionate? The social worker sees very happy with the care you are giving to your daughter.

You could ask the guardian why she thinks a supervision order is needed? What is her worry? Sometimes, parents agree to a child in need plan for a few months after a care order is discharged, instead of a supervision order.
If children services do decide to seek a supervision order, then find out what this means practically. Sometimes, a social worker will only visit and speak to a child once a month. So, it could be helpful to have the social worker around to ask for support such as around your daughter’s contact with mum and it might not be intrusive.
I would seek legal advice from your solicitor who will know your case well. They can advise whether to agree or oppose a supervision order if this is considered by children services. (Children services would have to agree to a supervision order). If you were opposing, your your solicitor could let the court know. The court would then set it down for a hearing for this to be considered by them. Mum will also be served with the court application as well.
I hope this helps but if you need further advice please post again or you could call our advice line on 0808 801 0366.
Kind regards,
Suzie

km2115
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:38 pm

Re: Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

Post by km2115 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:19 pm

Thank you, I will ask the children's guardian when she calls to speak to my daughter next week. :)

km2115
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Re: Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

Post by km2115 » Wed May 05, 2021 2:31 pm

Hi Suzie,

i spoke to the children's guardian and she says she does not want a Supervision Order but a something else that is only in place for 3 months, so if we have any questions they can support us in the first few months. I didn't catch what she said exactly but something with child in it. Would you know what this is? She definitely said it would only be in place for 3 months.

Thanks

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Thu May 06, 2021 2:44 pm

Dear km2115,

I am unsure from the information you have given me what this order may be - did the guardian mention a family assistance order? Again, I would suggest calling her back to clarify this.

Best wishes,

Suzie.

km2115
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:38 pm

Re: Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

Post by km2115 » Tue May 11, 2021 11:08 am

Thanks Suzie. I will email the guardian. I have posted another question regarding the court case that is taking place on 26 May, if you could advise on that please i would be really greatful as need some advise before the court case.

Thank you :)

km2115
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Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:38 pm

Re: Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

Post by km2115 » Thu May 13, 2021 2:20 pm

Hi Suzie,

I have had the court documents now and it is called and Support and Care Plan which the children's guardian has asked to be in place for minimum of 3 months. I dont have an issue with this as long as it is not for an extended period. The court case is on the 26th May and mother has said she will fight for the children in court, I have informed both the social worker and the children's guardian of what she has said.

There are two other questions i have asked on other threads but perhaps you can answer in this thread:

1. I have asked the SW and CG if a PSO can be requested as well as a CAO. I took some legal advise and the CAO is classed as a civil dispute so the police would not intervene to bring my daughter back if mother did take her but a PSO is specific and the police would have to act if mother took my daughter. The children's guardian said this would need to be discussed but if they say they will not request one, can i request on when we attend court remotely on the 26th May?

2. The SW has said in the court papers that my assessment in regards to my son is likely to be positive and when we spoke she hinted that she is looking at a shared custody arrangement where my son will spend half the week with me and the other half with his current carer. Again its a step forward so i dont have any issue with this apart from when i asked how long this would be in place the SW said "how long is a piece of string" and " we will have to do regular monitoring visits". Surely there needs to be some end date to this where its decided my son either comes back to me or stays shared care. I have worked really well with my SW and all other services but should i be looking for legal advice on this part as surely this cannot just keep going on and on. SS have been involved with the children since 2017.

Thanks

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Mon May 24, 2021 4:54 pm

Dear km2115,
You say mum has threatened to fight for the children in court. This suggests she will ask the court to make a court order in her favour rather than taking them from you illegally.
1.Has mum threatened to take the children from you without your agreement or a court order? For example, has she threatened to remove them from school or from your care? If so, a prohibited steps order may be appropriate. Usually, you would issue an application or put your request in writing to the court and send a copy to the other parties to the proceedings. Ask the social worker and the guardian for their views. It is possible to make a verbal request at court in an emergency.
2 The social worker needs to be clear about what she is expecting. Shared custody arrangements suggest the foster carer is going to get a court order with legal parental responsibility such as a child arrangements order which she will share with you.
However, does the social worker mean that the foster carer will be a respite carer for your son?

What are the monitoring visits she refers to? Find out whether children services want a child in need plan to support you and your son. This type of plan is with your consent. Or is she still thinking that there will be a supervision order? Please see the. A to Z of terms . Both situations would be time limited.
I hope my advice helps.
Best wishes,
Suzie

km2115
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:38 pm

Re: Children's Guardian Wants a Supervision Order - Do I need Legal Advice

Post by km2115 » Fri May 28, 2021 1:27 pm

I wanted to update you on the outcome of the court case on 26th May and also thank you for your advice for all my questions.

It was over very quickly and the judge agreed to everything we wanted. Thankfully mother saw sense and did not object to the discharge or the other orders. My daughters care order has been discharged, a CAO in my favour was granted until she reaches 18 years but as PSO wouldn't have been appropriate, SS applied for a order under section 91 (14). This means mum cannot just apply and keep applying to the court to have our daughter back. If she wants to look into having our daughter, she must first ask the permission of the court and evidence significant change before any permission would be given to progress further and if there is not enough to satisfy the judge, she will not be able to go any further. The judge also said that if she did apply for the courts permission it has to come before them and not any other judge.

The children's guardian asked for a Care and Support Plan to be in place for a short while and this is mostly to support around contact with mother as she is very difficult to deal with, can be very manipulative and has the mindset of she is in charge when she has supervised contact and can do what she likes, when she likes with the children. She has always been this way, long before SS was involved with her, so they want to make sure she knows what the plan is, that she has to stick to the contact plan and she cannot lead on what is going to take place ie where and when, what activity and for how long.

It was a wonderful day and a long time coming but couldn't have gone any better for me and my daughter. We are now free to live our lives and not have to worry about SS or her mother trying to get her back, she doesn't want to return to her mother by the way.

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