Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

heartbrokenfather
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:38 am

Re: Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

Post by heartbrokenfather » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:26 am

Thank you once again for your time, and your advice.

Sine my last update there has been a lot going on, but once again nothing seems to be moving forward.

When I last went to court it was my plea hearing, and the judge ordered that Prosecution was to serve the full papers within 21 days, That deadline has passed, and we are now almost 3 weeks overdue. My criminal solicitor has filed for a "mention hearing" at the Crown Court due to the prosecutions failure to serve the full papers.

So nothing more has progressed with the courts as of yet.

Regarding children's services, as you know a formal complaint was filed to the local authority, and I have now had a response.
Local Authority Formal Complaint Response <Click for PDF

Since then the current social worker who is also the Assistant Team Manager, has been on annual leave, then returned, gone off ill, and has now left the local authority.

This is now the 2nd social worker who has disappeared from our case in this patten, and both times very shorty after formal complaint's had been filed.

So right now our case does not have an allocated social worker.

I think I said in this main thread or one of my other posts, That there has not been a Core Group Meeting for some time, and that Core Group Meetings should take place at least six weekly.
After sending emails to both the Team Manager and Assistant Team Manager, and not getting any response, I once again contacted the director of children's services. A so called Core Group Meeting was then setup, But from my understanding of a Core Group Meeting is that people involved with our case are meant to be invited and give input.
When I got to the Core Group Meeting the only people in the meeting was the Team Manager and the administrator who was taking notes.
Once again my wife and I where not in the meeting at the same time, and when I asked why is this I was told that my wife had requested it. This is contradicting to what I have read and been told by my solicitors.

During this time I tried to raise my concerns, but was unable to get any answers.

I am due to have another meeting with Team Manager within the next week.

Regarding my wife filing for divorce.
I see nothing in any of the paperwork I have that says that my wife has to file for divorce.
I have heard nothing from my solicitors or my wife's solicitor regarding filing for divorce.
As I have said before children's services view point of myself is very clear, and children's services have been trying to influence since day one. Now that I am starting to receive documentation from children's services, this is now starting to becoming very clear.

In the so called Core Group Meeting that I had with the Team Manager I did bring up that if the local authority are actively trying to break up our marriage before the outcome of the trail is even know, then they are actively breaching Article 6, Article 8, and Article 12 of the human rights act.

Thanks for your time.

Best Regards.

ange301126
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

Post by ange301126 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:37 am

Dear Heartbrokenfather, I am pleased that information has begun to trickle through to you over the last couple of months and that you appear now to have a better understanding of what is going on.
As we all know, you deny any knowledge of domestic violence ever having occurred.Indeed no criminal charges of d.violence have been brought against you, have they?
The actual charges mention no violence against your wife or any to the children.They are unspecific about what you are supposed to have done wrong.
However, ideology and unrealism appears to have taken hold and I guess it was sown by the sw's.
You will have noticed that domestic violence is firmly entrenched in the parenting assessment agreement document as a 'concern' in fact it seems to be the only one mentioned.
You can bet money on it that it will be well-embedded into all other documents they have put out also and will have been verbalised widely at all the proceedings you are not allowed to attend.That some sort of d.v occurred has become so well believed it is almost irrefutable.

Please tell us if the parenting assessor discussed your alleged violent behavior with you?

You will have noticed that almost from the outset of your case, at every opportunity, the CS have also sown the myth that you do not understand and fail to accept or acknowledge their concerns.
This is very, very worrying. The parenting assessment may wrongly say the same.

This is what happened with me and my wife. We were responding to concerns which were complete invention but the falsehoods had been systematically introduced into the case by the CS and no-one questioned whether or not they were genuine.They just assumed they were and acted accordingly. Nothing we said was listened to and we were regarded as uncooperative and defensive.
Do you get what I mean? Let me have your comments and can you see how it might go the same way for anybody the CS take a dislike to.

Regarding the HRights Act , don't forget Article 3.

heartbrokenfather
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:38 am

Re: Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

Post by heartbrokenfather » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:58 pm

I will try and answer your questions in the same order as you asked them.

The police have never been to the family home, and or had any involvement regarding domestic abuse and or violence.

Regarding the on going Police / CPS case, as far as I am aware at this point in time without having a full copy of the CPS papers that there are no charges regarding domestic abuse and or violence.

Within the reports I am now starting to get copies of from children's services, domestic abuse and or violence does indeed seem to be listed often.

The parenting assessors did indeed also bring up the subject of domestic abuse and or violence.
And I advised them that I have been to see my GP as requested by children's services as they said I had to engage with my GP for my controlling and abusive behaviour.
The GP has known the family for at least 5 years, and had no such concerns, and if children's services thought there was an issue they should be the ones referring me not the GP.
The GP did refer me to the Mental Health Team, for stress.
I have been seen by the Mental Health Team regarding stress, and when I explained what was going on, they said I was doing better then they would expect, and in the time I had been talking to them they did not feel there was any domestic abuse and or violence problems.
The Mental Health Team, did refer me to a Stress Control Program to try and help lower my stress levels while trying to deal with the on going court case and children's services.

So I have children's services saying that I am controlling and abusive, and I have the family GP and the Mental Health Team saying that they don't have any concerns.

Thanks again for your time.

Best Regards.

ange301126
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

Post by ange301126 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:56 pm

Dear Heartbrokenfather, To review and widen the discussion , if I may, it seems to be generally agreed by us all ( including the Local Authorities themselves that social workers are exceeding their authority and acting wrongly when they use threats to ' force' a mother or father to leave a family home .
If they have 'genuine' evidence giving rise to serious concerns as to the safety of children,it is the department's duty to apply for a court order before implementing such an intrusive care-plan.

The reason they haven't applied so far is because there is no 'genuine' evidence!
It seems obvious that the evidence which they CLAIM to be acting on is false , that they are deliberately endeavouring to establish the false evidence against you and they have also made other false allegations about your mental health in order to justify their actions on the grounds that it is all to 'protect' your children from the 'risk' of significant harm.

In order to establish the false evidence and to legitimise their actions to a degree,they called a child-protection conference whilst failing to work as per legal guidelines and the Law.
They have apparently consistently abused your and your wife's legal rights by failing to communicate properly with you and they have failed to supply conference minutes in good time as well as other information. They have passed false 'concerns' of domestic violence and your mental state to parenting assessors. They have done all this without making reasonable enquiries of your G.P or the community mental health team.As they are involved in a joint investigation with the Police,they must be fully aware there is no past history of either.

They have dehumanised you by failing to interview you fully and by ignoring your rights to give account of yourself or even hear you.You had to force them to hold meetings because they failed in their statutory responsibilities.

In my opinion, they have created an unreal situation maliciously or not.There may be some who disagree with this and respectfully I ask them to comment and correct me if I am wrong. The way I see it is that we have the Children's Act and we have human rights laws to protect us from just this kind of officialdom.If Local Authorities don't abide by them and cause harm to a family they are criminally culpable.

But these are just words.The question is who stops the imposition of injustices like these?Formal complaints have little, real effect; whose job is it to protect citizens from false allegations a la French revolution ?

heartbrokenfather
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:38 am

Re: Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

Post by heartbrokenfather » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:09 pm

Thank you as always for taking the time to reply to my posts.

As said before I have still yet to receive a full copy of the case papers from the cps. But as far as I am aware there is no physical evidence, only what the children and or my wife may or may not of said during there police video interviews.

I think I have said in a previous post, that the police video interviews were undertaken by the (DC) Detective Constable that turned up on the night that I was told to leave the family home, and a PSI (Police Staff Investigator), from what I can see in the paper work I have to hand there was no other persons present during the video interview for any of the children and or my wife, so my wife was not present during the children's interviews, nor a friend of the family, nor a child's advocate.

Within the documents the police video interviews are referred to as "achieving best evidence interviews"
I did a google search regarding Achieving best evidence interviews and found the following document from Ministry of Justice: Achieving Best Evidence in Criminal Proceedings
This document is 257 pages, and most of it makes no sense to me.

Children's services are leaving me in the dark as much as they possibly can. I don't know if this is due to there being no evidence, or if there is any evidence that they don't want to give any details away.

Until such time as the CPS serves the full set of case papers I am just purely guessing.

The only thing I know for sure is since the start of all this back in November 2013, that both the police and children's services, have not acted within there own guidelines.

While on the subject of guidelines, can anyone please advice me on my rights to documents held with children's services.

I ask this, as I have received a copy of my minutes from the last so called Core Group Meeting.
On the minutes it does not say "Core Group Meeting" minutes, it says "Child In Need Meeting".
I say my minutes, as I have a single double sided A4 sheet of paper this only contains details regarding what was said while I was in the room, I do not have a copy of what was said with my wife, or any summary of what was said.

I know that my wife and I are having separate meetings, but I entitled to have a copy of my wife's minutes and or a summery of what was said during her meeting, as this would also involve information regarding the children.

And once again even my copy of the minutes is missing some of the questions that I asked, and the replies or there lack of.

Thanks again for your time.

Best regards.

ange301126
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

Post by ange301126 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:53 am

Dear Heartbrokenfather, We already know Ofsted's considered views of your particular CS dpartment is not good, You have seen yourself they appear to have little idea of what they are doing or should be doing.
Now we have them convening a ' core group' meeting without arranging for the attendance of a core group of professionals and issuing incomplete minutes ( taken by themselves) which describe it as a ' child in need' meeting. What next? The meeting should have been called off .
They seem to be totally dysfunctional.
Clearly , the public need protection and it should come sooner rather than later.If you are to be believed.
Truly, how can any of the ' evidence' they have given to either the Police or to cp conferences and so on have any reliability whatsoever? I do hope neither you or your wife signed the minutes.

In my last post, I tried to raise the question of how can citizens be protected from malpractice? Of course,I respect your decision to await the outcome of the trial in November and only time will tell.However,I have in mind what help can other parents get in the future.

I am thinking of active intervention to put a stop to this sort of thing much earlier on although it is now hypothetical in your case. They are imposing severe mental torture and actual emotional harm upon your children which might be described as child abuse,what avenues are open to others?
If we were to cause harm to our children, the CS would apply for an emergency protection order to a court.Can parents get emergency protection from a Local Authority by application to a court under the same section of the Children's Act as they use?

I haven't got a copy of the Act but if you have,can you look it up for us? Or maybe you can ask someone,perhaps your solicitor.

Can Suzie come in and shed any light on this hypothetical question,I wonder.

As far as the criminal proceedings and 'achieving best evidence' video interviews are concerned, I have been thinking about this considering all the past posts on the forums. Please would you say whether there has been any mention to you of CHILD CRUELTY? Like you I can only guess but I am supposing that cruelty or indeed behaviour leading to the charges on your sheet. may not relate to any specific action or deed you have committed but by the general way of life which you follow. This might mean they would collect evidence of your family life, how your wife and children see it and their general characters and mindsets. In some cases , they may see controlling behaviour or unusual strictness, for example, as cruelty or domestic abuse. Another example would be if a father was bringing a family up whilst encouraging them to follow abnormal practices, perhaps some sort of extreme religion. I trust you understand this is just speculation as to why they have not specified yet what you have actually done wrong and why they have taken this line of enquiry..They may not even know exactly themselves yet how they can prove the alleged offences. I am not for one moment suggesting there is anything concrete but I can see how insinuations or wildly exaggerated anonymous reports from some warped person ( with an axe to grind) and taken up by incompetent social workers might lead the Police into taking this angle.
Rather than make normal investigations, it is more in the nature of an inquisition designed to root out anything which may be construed as unorthodox.
When it gets to court ,of course, all of it can be used to win the prosecution's case for it. I believe , from what you have said , that your wife's evidence, in particular, will be influenced unfairly by CS threats to take away her children.

Can you think of anything at all? Does your wife or any of the children concerned have any gripes about you?About staying out late, mobile 'phones or some such issue?, Is there any reason why anyone might think you are too controlling? Oh dear, I am sounding like the Spanish Inquisitor General with all these questions but I'm just trying to give you an inkling.You may well already have thought of all this or maybe you aren't allowed to say.I hope you aren't even more confused now.

Anyway,I don't suppose evidence from your wife will be admissible if it was influenced by sw threats to take away her children.What do you think? As regards minutes for your wife's part of the meeting,you are entitled to see them but I doubt if any repeated threats will be recorded.Plus ,as with yours all her questions and complaints will be excluded so what's the point in worrying.Just add it to the list and tell your solicitor if they take legal proceedings eventually.

heartbrokenfather
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:38 am

Re: Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

Post by heartbrokenfather » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:34 am

Thanks for once again taking the time to read and reply to my posts.

We all know how the local authority, children's services, and the police work.
All we have to do is turn on the news and it's one thing after another regarding LA, CS, Etc.
For example the Ashya King's family, from what I have read and seen on the news they only wanted what was best for there son, and what parent would not want to do the most they could for there child. Because our NHS said there was nothing more they could do for the child, the parents wanted to take the child for treatment that was not available within the UK under, so the parents took the child from hospital within the UK to get the treatment he needed, for this the UK hunted down the family like wanted criminals, and treated them like criminals. The family had done nothing wrong nor broken any laws. Only since world wide public attention has the poor child been able to get the treatment he needs, and for the UK, local authority, children's services, and the police to stop perusing the parents.

So yes children, there families, and parents do indeed need protecting from the government, as can be clearly seen by the Ashya King's family case.

Regarding the Children Act they can be found here:
Children Act 1989 <Link
Children Act 2004 <Link

I am unsure witch one of the above act's is currently enforced.

At this point in time I am still unsure of what my actual charge is, as said before the charge (indictment) just listed as:
PARTICULARS OF OFFENCE
---------- between the ---------- and the ---------- being a person who had attained the age of 16 years and having the responsibility for ----------, a child under that age, wilfully assaulted, ill-treated, neglected, abandoned or exposed the said ---------- in a manner likely to cause the said ---------- unnecessary suffering or injury to health.
So at this point in time I have no idea what my actual charge is.

I have received a letter from my criminal solicitor stating that "Indictment and Guide to Indictment to be served by the -- September"

Hopefully then I will actually know what I am being charged with.

With regards to your question regarding does any of the children and or my wife have any concerns.
I am the person in the household that normally has to tell the children off (discipline), so in that sense I guess I could be seen as the bad evil one, But I also try to praise the children as much as I can for being good and or being helpful.
Regarding my wife, both my wife and myself have are own bank accounts, and all the payments are paid into and out of my wife's account, I do not have access to her account, I do not know her online back details, I do not even know her pin number for her bank card. my wife has a mobile phone, my wife will often go round her friends, she would occasionally go for nights out. My wife has her own car, and it was me who pushed her into learning how to drive, and have her own independence.
I am very much a stay at home dad, since me and my wife have been together I have never been for a night out. As I am at home most of the time I don't socialize, and as such I do not have many friends. But this has not bothered me as I am more family oriented.

As said before I am not a violent person, I have never taken drugs, I don't smoke, I did used to have a can of beer with my Sunday roast, and maybe a can of been on a Saturday while around the home or in the shed, A glass of wine when my wife and I had a romantic meal. But since children's services have said about drugs and alcohol, I have not touched a single drop of alcohol since being removed from the family home.

I am not a perfect father or husband, But I always try to do the best I can for my family.

If you have any questions please do fire them at me.

Thanks again for your time.

Best Regards.

User avatar
Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 3010
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm

Edited thread

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:46 am

This thread has been edited in line with forum rules.

Forum users are reminded to be mindful of these rules at all times.

Forum users are also reminded that the role of the advisers on this discussion board is primarily to provide legal advice and practical guidance on what to expect when social workers are involved, in response to specific queries.

Advisers are unable to comment on more general or hypothetical discussions, unrelated to a user’s specific situation.

In addition, advisers do not form judgements or conclusions about specific cases. This is not our role and we do not have enough information about the details of any case to reliably do so.

Users are reminded that their own views, experiences and opinions are not necessarily shared by others and that they should be respectful of other users at all times.

heartbrokenfather
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:38 am

Re: Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

Post by heartbrokenfather » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:00 pm

I have not done any updates for the last few weeks, has there has not been much to report.

Nothing seems to be moving forward or going right.

I am still not getting anywhere with children's services, I still don't have a family solicitor, But I am in talks with a well known solicitors firm that deals with children / family matters, so I am hopeful that they are able and willing to take on my case and help my family fight children's services.

This week I phoned my criminal solicitor to find out if there has been any updates with my court case, and all the paper work, only to be told that my criminal solicitor is leaving the firm, and that my case will be re-allocated.

We are looking at less then 8 weeks before my court trial is due to start, and at this point in time I have still yet to receive the full case papers, there has been no start to build a defence case, and my solicitor has not spoken to anyone that I might need and or what to call as a defence witness.

I am worried sick, I can't sleep, I just don't know what to do about anything.

I know that Suzie is unable to give any criminal legal advice, but where else can I go to try and find some help and support.

Thanks for your time.

Best Regards.

ange301126
Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Removed from family home by Police & Children Services

Post by ange301126 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:09 pm

Dear Heartbrokenfather, We aren't able to recommend solicitors to you or discuss details of your case on here.Would I be able to give a name in a p.m?

Post Reply