Where do we stand

[mcamw80]

We are kinship foster carer's for a family members baby and have been for the last 2 years. We have an xl bully that we have had since she was 6 weeks old, she is now 5 years old and she is a great big bundle of love and a big part of our family. We have done everything required to keep her since the ban came in, she is neutered, chipped, wears a mussel when out and we have an exemption certificate and liability insurance.
Over the last 2 years she has passed the social workers checks and been deemed safe.
Social workers have in the last few days told us we have to get rid of the dog. rehoming is not an option (by law) so the only option is to have her put down! They are asking us to kill our family pet who just weeks ok was checked by themselves and deemed safe. If we do not do this they will take baby away from us.
We were meant to be given an SGO last year but due having multiple different social workers and a long period without one at all it didn't happen.. if it went through when it was meant to this wouldn't apply to us. They also failed to pick it up when the ban was first announced last October, if they did it would have given us time to rehome her. They have left this until months after the ban was in force leaving us with no other option but to kill our well loved family pet or hand the child back.
We also have 2 children of our own who are both absolutely devastated about losing one or the other.
Surely there is something we can do.

[Robin D]

That's a really tough one. You could start a complaint, but my view is that it would be unlikely to yield results. You truly are between a rock and a hard place. The difficulty Children's Services have is that if they leave the baby with you and the dog turns on it (or indeed your own children), they would rightfully be harshly criticised. The government is responsible for bringing in the legislation after so many attacks by XL Bully dogs.

Having personally seen the injuries to a child by a previously 'safe' dog that had been in the family for about a decade (not a Bully) many many years ago, it was horrifying and the child concerned, now a parent themselves, still bear the scars. As a result I am possibly biased, so please do not take my response as gospel. Difficult as the decision is, it's one only you can make but I do not see the local authority backing down.

@Suzie, the FRG advisor may be able to add something I have not considered.

So sorry you find yourself in this situation, especially as if concerns had been raised earlier, it could possibly have been avoided. Sympathy doesn't really help you though.

[mcamw80]

Thank you for your reply.
I completely understand what you are saying but not all dogs are bad and she has had checks and was deemed safe. I have always been careful with dogs and children, I have gates on all doors and never leave the dog with any child.
Surely they can't not ask we kill our pet. I know of someone who has 3 pitbulls (also a banned breed) and their SW caught for them to have child placed with them. They had an assessment done on the dogs and the child was then pleased with them. I don't understand why this is not being offered to me.
Can you get an SGO if you have a banned breed dog?

[Robin D]

I don't believe SGO's existed last time breeds were banned, so I suspect there is no legal precedent. The Local Authority have to do an assessment for the court before an order can be made. Part of this relates to risk to the child. No-one can entirely eliminate risk in the home, but having bare electrical connections, or unlocked doors from a child's bedroom opening onto a balcony for example would be considered unacceptable. If these risks were not identified and mitigated against, the assessor would rightly be criticised if something foreseeable happened to a child.

By it's very nature, the assessment is a mix of objective review and subjective opinion.

If at any point, a social worker feels a placement exposes a child to unacceptable risk, they can and do, remove the child. This is particularly true, if it's a child the authority are currently responsible for under care proceedings.

I am sorry I cannot give any of the reassurance you seek. The breed is banned because of unpredictable behaviours. While I am certain your dog is lovely, I cannot see how a SW can justify leaving a small child potentially at risk. You might want to look at mitigation strategies, i.e. the dog muzzled when not eating, such eating always takes place away from the children, but you would have to consider that may still be unacceptable to the person doing a risk assessment.

I could give you many details on risk assessments, suffice to say that most people in my experience, don't really understand them, or yet the roll of mitigation to reduce or eliminate risk. The difficulty I have as a risk assessor in other fields, is that based on the media reports, which may of course be inaccurate, on occasion these dogs have attacked even when adults have been in the same room. How on earth do you mitigate against that?

Sorry I cannot be more reassuring.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

We are kinship foster carer's for a family members baby and have been for the last 2 years. We have an xl bully that we have had since she was 6 weeks old, she is now 5 years old and she is a great big bundle of love and a big part of our family. We have done everything required to keep her since the ban came in, she is neutered, chipped, wears a mussel when out and we have an exemption certificate and liability insurance.
Over the last 2 years she has passed the social workers checks and been deemed safe.
Social workers have in the last few days told us we have to get rid of the dog. rehoming is not an option (by law) so the only option is to have her put down! They are asking us to kill our family pet who just weeks ok was checked by themselves and deemed safe. If we do not do this they will take baby away from us.
We were meant to be given an SGO last year but due having multiple different social workers and a long period without one at all it didn't happen.. if it went through when it was meant to this wouldn't apply to us. They also failed to pick it up when the ban was first announced last October, if they did it would have given us time to rehome her. They have left this until months after the ban was in force leaving us with no other option but to kill our well loved family pet or hand the child back.
We also have 2 children of our own who are both absolutely devastated about losing one or the other.
Surely there is something we can do.

Dear mcamw80

Welcome to Family Rights Group kinship carers forum and thank you for posting.

My name is Suzie, online adviser at Family Rights Group and will respond to your post.

I am sorry for the difficult situation you find yourself in at pre-sent regarding the banned dog which is your family pet. Un-fortunately, this is not an issue that falls within the remit of our service.

However, having checked, the government website, you have done all that is required by government regarding your dog since the ban came into effect. It does seem unfair that children’s services did not consider it was an issue before now for you to care for a young child with a dog which was considered dangerous but not banned.

Now, the only thing I can suggest is that you ask the social worker to provide you with a copy of the local authority’s policy that states child cannot be placed in a home where a banned breed lives even where all legal requirements have been complied with. If they do not have a policy, I think it would be fair for them to explain to you in writing how they reached their decision.

As there is a care order in place, children’s services can decide where a child lives but they do need to give notice be-fore removal unless the child is at risk of immediate harm. Changing the arrangement should be considered by the court since the care plan was of the court’s decision making.

The independent reviewing officer (IRO) usually the person who chairs looked after child meetings is someone you can contact to speak about the decision that the baby may be removed from your care if your dog remains in the home. He or she will be able to discuss this with the social worker and consider the welfare and best interests of the child concerned.

Regarding the special guardianship order, it you were expected to apply for an order, it would be for you to make the application. Children’s services cannot apply for a private law order although they may have informed you, they would pay your legal costs. I suggest you take legal advice on this. You may be entitled to legal aid as recent changes include applications by kinship carers.

There is information. HERE about applying for a special guardianship order. I am assuming that you have already had a positive special guardian assessment.

You may wish to speak to one of our experienced advisers and can do so by telephoning the advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30am to 3.00pm Monday to Friday (excluding Bank Holidays)

Best wishes

Suzie