Interim care order

[Chow]

My 19 yo daughter had her baby on Sunday and she is still being kept in hospital as SS have requested an interim care order. They have set a court date for this Friday and it seems that they want her to go to a foster career with baby when she leaves the hospital. I am outraged that the first week of my grandsons life is in a hospital ward constantly being woken by other infants and under fluorescent lighting!

Their reasons for this:
* mother was a bit of a wild child aged 13+ (running away from home, shoplifting etc)
* mother had an abusive boyfriend ( she has not seen him since pregnancy began and she began reporting his abuse to police towards the end
* a police officer came to her home searching for this boy and stated that he smelt cannabis ( no search/ arrest was made)
* mother was given a 2 week prison sentence recently (1st time) for an offence that happened before her pregnancy.

Whilst I know that my daughter is no angel, her mother and I have noticed a big change in her since pregnancy and we feel that she is turning her life around. She has moved back into our home and has her own nursery/room for her and the baby. We are planning to give her every support that she needs to bring up the baby.

When SS mentioned the ICO we suggested that our daughter stays with us with the baby rather than a strange family but they want to go to court, so that she can go to this foster home to be monitored and assessed. Surely she could still be monitored and assessed in our own home.

Has anyone had to deal with anything similar who can advise?

[Chow]

Thank you very much for your reply. It has been a bit hectic here, what with visiting the hospital and solicitors every day.

We went to court and an interim care order was imposed. My daughter and grandson are now with a foster carer for 4 weeks whilst SS are carrying out evaluations on her and assessments on us. We then expect them home (fingers crossed).

[Chow]

Well so far this has not gone very well, daughter has been with a foster carer since Friday and she has been told that her parents are not allowed to visit her without SS setting it up and they refuse to set it up till they are ready!

The foster carer let my daughter and baby goe to the shops on over the weekend and today SS have said she can't go out for more than 30 mins, 3 times a day! The foster carer told my daughter to make a complaint about SS in front of them!

I have tonight written a letter to my daughters solicitor for her outlining how SS are treating her. It seems that they do not want her to have any contact with her family. They won't allow her siblings to see her unless its in a contact centre. We are good people who have never been in trouble so there is no reason for this.

There is a 8 week interim care order in place and they are telling her that she will be there till April. SS are supposed to be doing checks on us so that she can come home in 4 weeks but what they are saying makes it sound unlikely.

SS also told the foster carer today that my daughter is an arsonist and violent. As the foster carer has young children she asked for further information. SS stated that she set off the fire alarm at school aged 15 and pushed a security guard when shoplifting also 15!

The foster carer can't believe that our daughter is there.

[David Roth]

Chow, it sounds as if you are doing what can be done. That is to say, you are making your objections to what is happening very clear.

You might also want to consider using the complaints system. You won't be able to complain about something that is in the court arena, but if the social worker has described someone who set off a fire alarm as an arsonist then that sounds very like providing misleading information, and I think it is worthwhile making your objections to this clear.

Other than that, since an interim care order is now in place, then you do have to go along with what is happening, while making your objections to what you consider unnecassary restrictions very clear. Your aim should be to persuade the social workers, and if they can't be persuaded then the courts, that your daughter can be trusted to look after the baby safely, and that you can be trusted to have contact with them or to provide them with a home. The way to do that is to provide evidence that your daughter is managing the baby and that your contact with the baby is safe for the baby. It helps that the foster carer seems to be on your side, as it sounds as if her evidence will support what you are saying.

There should be a looked after review within 28 days of a child being placed in care, which should look at how your daughter and her baby are doing. It will be interesting what they say about how the placement with the foster carer has been going, and what objections they have to yuor daughter and the baby returning home.

[Chow]

Just had the looked after review and it went well (although daughter and grandson are still at foster carers). The reports were read out by the foster carer and the health visitor and ther were excellent. My daughter has been given more freedom now. The independent reviewer stated that it was unacceptable of SS to impose the 30 minutes allowed out time.

My daughter now has been given leave to go to appointments with her child (so she can now register him)

Although we have it agreed that we can pick her up and take her to appointments and even look after our grandson whilst she is there, we only have supervised visits of our grandson! I still can't work out why we have to be supervised as we are of good character.

The viability assessments that are supposed to be carried out by SS have still not begun. I am chasing her solicitor to get on to SS about these.

Can anyone tell me what these viability assessments involve?

Last of all, where do we go from here? We have proof that she can care for her child, they state that they see no risks but she is still there. The ICO was for 8 weeks. Do we need to go to court and change/cancel it?

Thanks in advance.

[David Roth]

Hi Chow

It sounds as though there has been some improvement to your family's situation since you last posted here, although clearly it is still not what you would wish. At least your daughter can now have more unsupervised time with her son, and hopefully she can show that she can manage to be alone with him without the baby coming to any harm.

I am not sure from what you have said why your contact with your grandson would be supervised, but at least if there is to always be somebody there when you see him, then you should be able to show that you can be trusted with him as well.

You ask what a viability study involves? - there is no standard format for viability studies, so what they cover can vary from one local authority to the next. However, what they generally consist of is an initial assessment, to help decide whether it is worthwhile proceeding to carry out the full assessment. They generally involve the assessing social worker making an assessment of what the potential benefits and risks would be of making a particular placement, but don't go into the carers' background in as much depth as the full assesment does.

At the moment, Interim Care Orders are generally renewed every 8 weeks until the proceedings are resolved. It would not usually happen that at the end of 8 weeks the order just lapses and the child goes home. From what you have said, the local authority are still treating your daughter as if they have concerns, even although she is showing that she can care for her son. It sounds as if they would want to renew the ICO. If you want to challenge the local authority's actions, your daughter would need to go to the court hearing with legal representation, so I would suggest preparing for it with your daughter's solicitor. The sooner you start to prepare the better.

[Chow]

David
Thanks for the reply. We can't work out why our visits are supervised either. The court imposed it. When we told the court advocate that my daughter was a bit of a black sheep and our other children were not like that she stated to my daughters soliciter that we said this but she doesn't believe it! Our eldest is in his last year of uni and the others are in private school with very good grades. None of our children have ever been in trouble. It makes me mad that their assumptions make our life like this.

Thanks for the viability study information.

I will speak to her solicitor this week and ask them to challenge it and my daughter attend court. If we don't get any positive reactions, I think that we may change solicitor to one on the family panel that was suggested by ied53.

Thanks once again. I can't wait till this nightmare is over.

[David Roth]

Just to say that in terms of these cases it is SO important to get a solicitor who is familiar with this area of law. A lot of people will just use the same law firm that they used for other matters like conveyancing or writing a will, but there is a lot of specialist legal knowledge in this particular area of law, including important case law precendents and fine points about what is in regulations and guidance as well as primary legislation.

I would suggest that you check whether this is an area of expertise for the solicitor you are using, by checking what they say on the Law Society website. It is not always a good idea to change solicitors, but these cases are now moving through the courts quite quickly, and if you are going to make a change then it is probably better to do so sooner rather than later.

[temporary.username]

My daughter placed my eldest grandson in my care at 8 months old as she had split up from his father and could not cope with him and began to lead a wild lifestyle. She then moved in with a violent partner, and I felt it wasn't safe for hime to be in her care.
It took 3 years of going backwards and forwards to court, but finally I was granted a Residence Order in 2012.
However, since then she had a child to this man, and due to both their volatile personalities, my youngest grandson was placed in foster care at 3 years old. My daughter is now in the process of trying to work with social services to get him back soon.
The same day that her youngest was placed in care, she decided to see her father who has not been in touch with her for 20 years, and who I left due to child protection issues. He has managed to convince her that I put it in her head, about the things he did, and that it was me who was the unfit mother and that it is my fault that both her children are not with her. I do have a son who is 2 years older than her, in a stable relationship and a good career and very happy.
She has made trouble with me through social services, now bringing the welfare of my grandson that lives with me into question.
She openly admitted to me a few weeks ago that she has told some terrible lies about me and that she needed to use me as a scapegoat to get her youngest son back. She didn't tell me that another baby is on the way in August.
Social Services have put my grandson on the CPR. Then taken him off it and now say he is under and ICO pending proceedings and a finding of fact hearing about her allegations. I have nothing in writing from the court.
However, I am being asked to attend court this week when the youngest one in care is going to be discussed, but Social Services are trying to bring my other grandson and I into these proceedings.
I do not know what to expect. I have ticked all the boxes, complied with all their requirements and in all the assessments have been completely honest in my denial of the allegations, some of which are absolutely absurd. My daughter is very convincing and well known for her attention and sympathy seeking. I just feel I am being subjected to all this for her own ends and it is nothing remotely to do with my eldest grandson's welfare.
Please could you advise

[David Roth]

Hi - I'll reply at greater length tomorrow to the questions you've asked. At the moment, I'd just like to suggest that if you've used your real name as your username then you should change it.

This discussion forum can be read by anybody, and using your real name means that you and the child could potentially be identified.

If you have used a pseudonym, then I apologise for raising the matter, but keeping things confidential can be extremely important, particularly in the circumstances you have described.

I don't have time to provide a full answer to your queries now, but I will do so tomorrow.