Taking sister kids

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Shergy678
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:07 pm

Taking sister kids

Post by Shergy678 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 1:02 pm

Hi my sister has just recently passed away she has left 4 children age 16 14 10 and 6 she was with a partner when she died however he wasent their father he was absent for 5 years after she died we found out that legally he was her next of kin and has all legal rights to kids however he is happy for them to stay with me the trouble is the 16 and 6 year old want to live with their step father and the other 2 want to live with me there are no safe guarding issues from my end or step fathers however if the real dad did want them there would be he is an alcoholic and was violent to my sister plus kids don't want to know him my question is where do I stand legally step dad is happy for me to do special guardianship order and kids stay where they wish for now but if 6 year old changes hers mind she can come with me too social workers are saying there is no financial support because it's not a safeguarding issue but surely they have a duty of care to kids in these circumstances x

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Taking sister kids

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:19 pm

Dear Shergy678

Welcome to the family and friends’ carers discussion board and thanks for posting.

My name is Suzie, online adviser at Family Rights Group. I am sorry it has taken some time for you to receive a response.

I am sorry you have recently lost your sister. You are now trying to do the best for her children. Her children’s father you say is legally her next of kin and has all legal rights to the children. Was your sister married to the children’s father or did she name him as her next of kin. As far as the children are concerned, if she was married to the father or he is named on the children’s birth certificates, then he has parental responsibility for the children and can make decisions about them.

As the children wish to stay with their stepfather, he could apply for an order for the 6 year old to live with him. The eldest child 16 is able to decide who she would like to live with as the court is unlikely to make an order at her age.

If the father does have parental responsibility and the children do not wish to be with him and there is an issue with him alcohol then, you are right that it would be a safeguarding issue as he is the only one who can make decisions. Children’s services would have a duty to the children as they do for all children in need in their area.

Children’s services have no safeguarding concerns but that does not mean they cannot carry out a s.17 child in need assessment and offer a financial payment. You can ask them to do this as the children have come to you after the death of their mother and their father is not able to care for them himself despite having parental responsibility.

I suggest you look at the local authority’s website at their family and friends care policy. It could be called kinship or connected person policy. You may also find it helpful to read our advice sheets Relatives and friends taking on the care of a vulnerable child in an emergency, Support for relatives and friends who are looking after someone else’s child for more information.

Please read the advice sheets and have a discussion with children’s services before deciding to apply for either a child arrangement or special guardianship order. It is important that they consider their responsibility to the children either you or the stepfather applies for any order.

You can also read more information for family and friends carers from our website.

You can also telephone our advice line to speak to an adviser on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30am to 3pm Monday to Friday.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes

Suzie

Shergy678
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:07 pm

Re: Taking sister kids

Post by Shergy678 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:53 pm

Thank you for replying my situation has since changed the 15 year old has since disclosed her dad was taking drugs in front of her to a social worker who have now become involved again and are doing a child in need assessment on all 3 girls he said it will be long term support but still maintains I am financially responsible for them as they never placed them with me but they will support a special guardian order I dont understand how they can support it if they never placed the children with me i feel as though they are trying to be underhanded and want me to look after kids without any financial support where doni stand legally with this please?

Chelseafan
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:32 pm

Re: Taking sister kids

Post by Chelseafan » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:04 pm

Hi ,
CHild Services will place them with family all day long because there is no financial support available.
Try phoning Childlawadvice.org 03003305480

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Taking sister kids

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:52 pm

Shergy678 wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:53 pm Thank you for replying my situation has since changed the 15 year old has since disclosed her dad was taking drugs in front of her to a social worker who have now become involved again and are doing a child in need assessment on all 3 girls he said it will be long term support but still maintains I am financially responsible for them as they never placed them with me but they will support a special guardian order I dont understand how they can support it if they never placed the children with me i feel as though they are trying to be underhanded and want me to look after kids without any financial support where doni stand legally with this please?
Dear Shergy678

Thanks for your updating post. From the information you have provided children’s services do not appear to have placed the children with you. However, they are now rightly doing a child in need assessment - it seems this may have been triggered by the 15 year old stating that her dad misused drugs in front of her.

However, they could have done a child in need assessment anyway as the children may be vulnerable and in need of extra support because they are bereaved and are living in a kinship care arrangement. Financial support can be provided as part of a child in need assessment if assessed as being necessary. These can include a regular cash payment or help with a particular need. If you are in urgent need of help with finances to allow you care for the children ask for this in writing and if refused ask that the decision be confirmed to you in writing with reasons – so that you can challenge if need be.

Please do look at the local authority’s family and friends’ carers’ policy as I mentioned in my earlier response. You may be able to find a copy of the policy here .

You could apply for either a Child Arrangements Order (CAO)[ or a Special Guardianship Order (SGO) if you want to get parental responsibility for the children – the SGO may be more robust though and it seems that children’s services have already said that they could support this. It would be very important to ask the social worker to clarify what they mean by this.

They would have to complete an assessment of your ability to care for the children if you wanted to be a special guardian – this could include an assessment of yours and the children’s support needs (including financial!). If the children were looked after children first, children’s services have to do this assessment of support needs; if the children were not looked after (as your sister’s children don’t appear to be) first they don’t have to assess your support needs but they can.

It would be a very good idea to ask the social worker to confirm that they will do this assessment of your support needs if you go down this route. You can also ask if they will pay for you to access some legal advice - they should have a written policy on this which you can ask for. Special guardianship allowances are means-tested and discretionary but where paid must take into account what you would be paid as a foster carer for the children (minus any child benefit or child tax credit that you would be entitled to receive for them).

If you need financial support to be able to continue to care for the children then do spell this out to children’s services. You might want to make this clear at any meetings that take place so that it is formally recorded. It is really important that you try to negotiate for any support that you need before you obtain a court order.

If you decided to apply for a CAO instead you should also insist on being assessed for a CAO allowance – this is means-tested and discretionary too.

If you do not feel you are getting satisfactory responses from children’s services to your queries or requests for help and support then you can make a complaint. This can mean that your situation is looked into more thoroughly. Here is our advice sheet on complaints for your information.

Please do look at the information referred to in this and our earlier response to your posts. You are very welcome to post back if you have a new query or if you would prefer to speak to an adviser please do call our freephone advice line on 0808 8010366 from Mon – Fri, 9.30 am to 3.00 pm.

I hope that you and the children get the right help and support soon.

With best wishes

Suzie

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:25 pm

Re: Taking sister kids

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:57 am

Chelseafan wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:04 pm Hi ,
CHild Services will place them with family all day long because there is no financial support available.
Try phoning Childlawadvice.org 03003305480
Dear Chelseafan

Thank you for posting on the family and friends' discussion forum.

I see from your post that you indicated that children's services will place children with family because no financial support is available. This is, however, not correct. Where children's services place children with family members under s.20 accommodation or a care order, those persons would be treated as foster carers and receive the appropriate fostering allowance. Also, where 'looked afer' children remain with family members under a private law order, being a child arrangement order or special guardianship order, children's services will pay appropriate allowances which are means tested.

You signposted the poster to Child Law Advice which was helpful but as children's services are involved with the family the poster was right to seek advice from Family Rights Group.

Best wishes

Suzie

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