Good morning my name is grandpaben
Just asking for advise and help.
Just before Christmas both myself and the parents of my granddaughter (aged15)
Were contacted by the police and social service's over an incident. (this was just a prank gone wrong)
I had to go to the police station to give an interview over the matter as I had allegation's made against me
supposedly made by a girl at school, now the case of this was closed with no action against me or my granddaughter, her parents were also questioned and were told thy would need a medical ?
My question's are these :
1) No reference number was given by the police.
2) No reference number was given by the social services
3) My granddaughter was questioned without an adult only by a police even after her parents asked to be
present
4) Why would the social services need to have a medical examination for her parents.
The police did NOT contact the social service's and the social service's contacted the school
Can any one help as the what is any legal laws were broken and to what action I can take against those involved. There is an ongoing police investigation by the IOPC as yet nothing has come back.
I was prevented from seeing any of my 11 grandkids by the social services (without supervision) and as of today 10/1/2023 NO one has come back to say i can see them without supervision this makes it very very hard as i look after one grandchild during the week and transport a second grandchild to school and dance a lot of people are now having to change job hours to help including my wife. The police concluded the investigation and said No action was to be taken on the 29/1/ 2024 that was 12 days ago ?
This is causing a great deal of stress not just with me and the family but also my 11 grandchildren.
I already have depression and anxiety and the grandkids are one of the reasons I have held back with self harm over the past few years. Its getting now to the point of I am reverting back to seriously harming myself.
Please can someone help and advise.
X (grandpaben)
Laws
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grandpaben
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2024 11:24 am
Laws
Last edited by Suzie, FRG Adviser on Fri Jan 12, 2024 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Moderated to remove personal information
Reason: Moderated to remove personal information
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4240
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Laws
Dear grandpaben
Welcome to the parents’ discussion board. Thank you for your post. My name is Suzie and I am Family Rights Group’s online adviser.
I am sorry to hear about the difficulties your family are currently experiencing. I will provide advice which I hope will help you and your family in relation to children’s services' (the name now used for social services) actions and involvement.
However, I can see that this whole situation is taking an emotional toll on your family and, on you, in particular. You already experience anxiety and depression and have struggled with thoughts of self-harm in the past. You are worried that the current stressful situation is putting you at risk of serious self-harm. I wanted to encourage you to access support to help you at this difficult time. Your GP is often the best point of contact as they would be able to offer support and also let you know what help may be available locally. As well as your GP, there are a number of specialist organisations that can also provide emotional support and mental health advice; it is a good idea to seek professional help as and when you need to. Please see the following links for services that will listen to you and discuss any worries or needs that you have:
Samaritans
Shout
SOS
Mind
CALM
Hub of Hope (you can use their search button to search for a local service)
You have explained that police and children’s services became involved with you and your 15 year old granddaughter just before Christmas. This was because an allegation was made against you by a girl at school. You explain that it related to a prank that went wrong. The police interviewed you about this. They also spoke to / interviewed your granddaughter. I am unsure if this was as a potential suspect, witness or as a potential victim.
It sounds as if this was a very traumatic experience for you all. You have explained that the police investigation has already concluded and they are taking no further action.
When police become involved due to concerns that a child may have been harmed or that a child may have harmed another child they must share this information with children’s services. This is because of their distinct roles. The police investigate whether a crime has been committed. In the situation you describe they seem satisfied that this is not the case.
However, children’s services are the lead agency in terms of protecting children and ensuring that their needs are being met. So they will undertake an assessment of the needs of the children involved. This assessment could be either a child protection investigation or a child in need assessment.You can find out more here about how children’s services work.
I would recommend that the children’s parents ask the social worker to clarify what assessment they are doing. Government guidance says that an assessment should be completed in a maximum of 45 working days – of course it can be completed sooner than that.
When they are doing an assessment and there is a concern about possible risk, children’s services often asking families to agree to a temporary safety plan. In your situation, they have requested that your grandchildren’s parents do not allow you to have any unsupervised contact with your grandchildren, until they have completed an assessment and concluded whether this needs to continue to be in place or not.
The parents are the legal decision makers for their children when they have parental responsibility for them. However, children’s services would be concerned if the temporary safety plan were breached. They could consider taking further action if they believed it placed the children at risk of significant harm.
You have described very clearly the impact this is having on you and your extended family. You normally play an active part in looking after and transporting some of your grandchildren. Family members have had to step in to cover the care that you usually provided. This is affecting your wife’s job. When you posted you had had no update from children’s services about this.
I can understand how frustrating this is. You and your family need children’s services to give you an update on the situation. I would suggest that the children’s parents request this as well as you. There should be a timescale for review of any temporary safety plan and the parents/you can ask for this.
If it is not possible to speak to the allocated social worker you can ask to speak to a duty social worker or a team manager. You should also be able to find an email address online or can ask the council switchboard to provide you with the relevant contact details.
You have some specific questions about police and children’s services procedures. I am not able to answer your queries about how the police work as this is outside our remit. You may however find it helpful to look at the information about the police and crime on Advice Now’s website.
You have made a complaint to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) and are awaiting a response. I hope that you do hear back soon and this will answer your questions about the police’s role.
My granddaughter was questioned without an adult only by a police even after her parents asked to be present
Do you know if the police spoke to your granddaughter about her welfare or as a witness or as a potential suspect? There can be situations when social workers or police speak to young people alone as part of child protection enquiries without their parents’ agreement. This could be where there is a concern that a child may be intimidated or silenced or if the child does not want their parents involved.
You can find an explanation here of what should happen if an under 17 year old is arrested and who can be appointed as their appropriate adult.
No reference number was given by the social services
You queried that children’s services did not provide a reference number. Their reference will be the details of the children involved e.g. your 15 year old granddaughter’s name, address, and date of birth and the same for your other grandchildren. You would need to provide these details to get through to the social worker/team involved.
The police did NOT contact the social service's
The police will have made a referral to children’s services, as discussed earlier in my response. They let children’s services know the situation so they can assess further, if needed.
Social service's contacted the school
As part of any assessment children’s services will want to speak to children’s schools. They do not need consent to do so if they are having a strategy meeting or doing a child protection investigation. But they should keep the children’s parents informed about this.
Why would the social services need to have a medical examination for her parents.
Children’s services have no power to require your granddaughter’s parents to have a medical and I don’t see any reason for this. However, they could ask a parent’s permission for a child to have a child protection medical to assess if they have suffered any physical or sexual harm or whether they are being neglected. I would suggest that the parents ask children’s services to clarify what they mean by a medical, who for and why.
You are querying what if any legal laws were broken and to what action I can take against those involved.
I think that you and your family should focus on clarifying with children’s services what their current role is, when they will review the current supervision arrangements, when they will complete their assessment and that in the meantime they keep the parents updated. You can also request this update as your contact with your grandchildren is being restricted, however, as a grandfather you do not have parental responsibility. It is unlikely that they have broken any laws but communication seems to have been very poor.
It may be helpful for you to seek further advice when you have heard back from children’s services. If you do not hear back or are unhappy with the response you receive then the way to challenge this is via a complaint.
You may wish to discuss the situation in more detail with an adviser. You can call our freephone advice line on 0808 8010366, Mon to Fri, 9.30 am to 3.00 pm (except bank holidays).
If you would like to post a further query please can you use our specialist kinship carers’ board rather than this parents’ board, as you are a grandparent. You may also get advice on that forum from other relatives, as well as from me.
We also have an advice enquiry form and a webchat facility.
I hope you that your situation moves forward soon.
Best wishes
Suzie
Welcome to the parents’ discussion board. Thank you for your post. My name is Suzie and I am Family Rights Group’s online adviser.
I am sorry to hear about the difficulties your family are currently experiencing. I will provide advice which I hope will help you and your family in relation to children’s services' (the name now used for social services) actions and involvement.
However, I can see that this whole situation is taking an emotional toll on your family and, on you, in particular. You already experience anxiety and depression and have struggled with thoughts of self-harm in the past. You are worried that the current stressful situation is putting you at risk of serious self-harm. I wanted to encourage you to access support to help you at this difficult time. Your GP is often the best point of contact as they would be able to offer support and also let you know what help may be available locally. As well as your GP, there are a number of specialist organisations that can also provide emotional support and mental health advice; it is a good idea to seek professional help as and when you need to. Please see the following links for services that will listen to you and discuss any worries or needs that you have:
Samaritans
Shout
SOS
Mind
CALM
Hub of Hope (you can use their search button to search for a local service)
You have explained that police and children’s services became involved with you and your 15 year old granddaughter just before Christmas. This was because an allegation was made against you by a girl at school. You explain that it related to a prank that went wrong. The police interviewed you about this. They also spoke to / interviewed your granddaughter. I am unsure if this was as a potential suspect, witness or as a potential victim.
It sounds as if this was a very traumatic experience for you all. You have explained that the police investigation has already concluded and they are taking no further action.
When police become involved due to concerns that a child may have been harmed or that a child may have harmed another child they must share this information with children’s services. This is because of their distinct roles. The police investigate whether a crime has been committed. In the situation you describe they seem satisfied that this is not the case.
However, children’s services are the lead agency in terms of protecting children and ensuring that their needs are being met. So they will undertake an assessment of the needs of the children involved. This assessment could be either a child protection investigation or a child in need assessment.You can find out more here about how children’s services work.
I would recommend that the children’s parents ask the social worker to clarify what assessment they are doing. Government guidance says that an assessment should be completed in a maximum of 45 working days – of course it can be completed sooner than that.
When they are doing an assessment and there is a concern about possible risk, children’s services often asking families to agree to a temporary safety plan. In your situation, they have requested that your grandchildren’s parents do not allow you to have any unsupervised contact with your grandchildren, until they have completed an assessment and concluded whether this needs to continue to be in place or not.
The parents are the legal decision makers for their children when they have parental responsibility for them. However, children’s services would be concerned if the temporary safety plan were breached. They could consider taking further action if they believed it placed the children at risk of significant harm.
You have described very clearly the impact this is having on you and your extended family. You normally play an active part in looking after and transporting some of your grandchildren. Family members have had to step in to cover the care that you usually provided. This is affecting your wife’s job. When you posted you had had no update from children’s services about this.
I can understand how frustrating this is. You and your family need children’s services to give you an update on the situation. I would suggest that the children’s parents request this as well as you. There should be a timescale for review of any temporary safety plan and the parents/you can ask for this.
If it is not possible to speak to the allocated social worker you can ask to speak to a duty social worker or a team manager. You should also be able to find an email address online or can ask the council switchboard to provide you with the relevant contact details.
You have some specific questions about police and children’s services procedures. I am not able to answer your queries about how the police work as this is outside our remit. You may however find it helpful to look at the information about the police and crime on Advice Now’s website.
You have made a complaint to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) and are awaiting a response. I hope that you do hear back soon and this will answer your questions about the police’s role.
My granddaughter was questioned without an adult only by a police even after her parents asked to be present
Do you know if the police spoke to your granddaughter about her welfare or as a witness or as a potential suspect? There can be situations when social workers or police speak to young people alone as part of child protection enquiries without their parents’ agreement. This could be where there is a concern that a child may be intimidated or silenced or if the child does not want their parents involved.
You can find an explanation here of what should happen if an under 17 year old is arrested and who can be appointed as their appropriate adult.
No reference number was given by the social services
You queried that children’s services did not provide a reference number. Their reference will be the details of the children involved e.g. your 15 year old granddaughter’s name, address, and date of birth and the same for your other grandchildren. You would need to provide these details to get through to the social worker/team involved.
The police did NOT contact the social service's
The police will have made a referral to children’s services, as discussed earlier in my response. They let children’s services know the situation so they can assess further, if needed.
Social service's contacted the school
As part of any assessment children’s services will want to speak to children’s schools. They do not need consent to do so if they are having a strategy meeting or doing a child protection investigation. But they should keep the children’s parents informed about this.
Why would the social services need to have a medical examination for her parents.
Children’s services have no power to require your granddaughter’s parents to have a medical and I don’t see any reason for this. However, they could ask a parent’s permission for a child to have a child protection medical to assess if they have suffered any physical or sexual harm or whether they are being neglected. I would suggest that the parents ask children’s services to clarify what they mean by a medical, who for and why.
You are querying what if any legal laws were broken and to what action I can take against those involved.
I think that you and your family should focus on clarifying with children’s services what their current role is, when they will review the current supervision arrangements, when they will complete their assessment and that in the meantime they keep the parents updated. You can also request this update as your contact with your grandchildren is being restricted, however, as a grandfather you do not have parental responsibility. It is unlikely that they have broken any laws but communication seems to have been very poor.
It may be helpful for you to seek further advice when you have heard back from children’s services. If you do not hear back or are unhappy with the response you receive then the way to challenge this is via a complaint.
You may wish to discuss the situation in more detail with an adviser. You can call our freephone advice line on 0808 8010366, Mon to Fri, 9.30 am to 3.00 pm (except bank holidays).
If you would like to post a further query please can you use our specialist kinship carers’ board rather than this parents’ board, as you are a grandparent. You may also get advice on that forum from other relatives, as well as from me.
We also have an advice enquiry form and a webchat facility.
I hope you that your situation moves forward soon.
Best wishes
Suzie
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