Honestly cant see the light

[warthhog123]

Emse

Thanks for your post, not really been posting for a while. meeting went terrible. Social workers assessment due next friday!!! Ex due out following friday then 3 day final hearing in oct.

Ive have been told by LA and barrister there is little chance of him coming home now!!!

So i just have to even in my darkest hr resume having good contact with my son for next 5 weeks.
I only have my son wed all day but its wonderful and feels normal until he is taken, then its back to the empty existence and pain!!!
The only thing going in my favour is 13hrs a week contact and only monitored, with parenting skills still not in question, yet ive been told that means absolutely nothing at the final hearing, that they give extra hrs then snatch them away.

What i cant fully understand about my own case is there is only two choices been proposed my son returned on a order or permentant removal and LA have made it known they dnt want him returned on a order. even though ive sort counselling like they asked and am fighting to get funding for therapy also offered to move out of area and dont speak to exs family any more. Im confused???

[TKH]

Think outside the box! Is there anything you can do to improve your chances? Could you perhaps pay for councelling? At least initially. Can you make enquiries about mother and toddler groups you would join if you got him back where you would make friends for extra support.Think also about joining a church as that is also something you could site as being in his interest to be part of a community. Think hard and try anything you think may help x

[warthhog123]

Think outside the box! Is there anything you can do to improve your chances? Could you perhaps pay for councelling? At least initially. Can you make enquiries about mother and toddler groups you would join if you got him back where you would make friends for extra support.Think also about joining a church as that is also something you could site as being in his interest to be part of a community. Think hard and try anything you think may help x

Thanks for your post I am involved in 2 mother and baby groups and i take my son out to park, swimming and to play farms ect.
After psychological assessment i took on board that it was her belief i would take ex back and recommended therapeutic input although hazy with what she wanted me to do, i straight away went to gp and got a referral to mental health team. Gp is looking into whether the surgery will fund therapy for me. I even though have new partner and out of dv relationship with ex i have been referred to freedom programme and am in da counselling at the moment.
So there is very little more i can do at this moment in time.
Its so difficult because its not been looked at what ive done since my sons removal only the mistakes in the past which is something i cant change so im stuck really.

[ange301126]

dear warthog, I think it is up to your lawyers to argue your case. Naturally you are confused.
A week or two ago, I suggested that in our case after a flawed initial,fact-finding hearing at which false information was presented by the Local Authority, it was assumed by all professionals at all subsequent hearings that removal was necessary and in proportion to the circumstances of the case.
Have you noticed in your case that as the Local Authority 'engineered' the emergency removal of your child into care without strictly correct procedure ( which would have entailed an application to Magistrates), the argument now being put to the magistrates is not as to whether removal is necessary and in proportion to the circumstances, this has now been assumed to be so, the argument is now whether the care-plan can return the child home or not. This is what I meant and you are right to be confused as the goal-posts have been changed!
Do not despair. Ask your lawyers whether the case is to be passed to the County Court or not and that is what you desire. That is,if they will communicate with you.

[TKH]

I was told in no uncertain terms that I would not be able to hang on to any of my 6 kids.I was later told to accept a SO as a CO would be likely to be granted. The LA got neither so after 2 1/2 years they finally backed off and left us alone to do what we were trying to do beforehand. Keep at it, athletes have incentives but we have the most precious incentive of all

[Esme, Moderator]

Sorry things feel so negative Warthhog- you are obviously working so hard for your son. Will think of you on Friday- let us know what the social worker is recommending in the assessment.

Hope you and your son had a lovely day together today.

Best Wishes

Esme
FRG Moderator

[warthhog123]

Hi Esme / Ange
I am no further on and 4 weeks to the day to final hearing.
I have tried to get hold of solicitor to no avail, I have rung left messages and emailed concerns and questions. NOTHING!!
LA was due to file last thursday, i havent received anything as yet.
I am to file in ten days and dont know what im suppose to do!

I have had no answer from anyone when i ask why is long term fostering not an option to allow me time to prove myself.
All i know is they have been to see wider family to see if anyone can raise my son long term.
So thats my parents have been seen and i dont speak with them and havent spoken to them for 2 years my mother is heavy drinker and is in ill health.
Exs mother and father have been asked and father says he will and mother said she would think about it.
Exs father is in ill health and lives like a pig, he hasnt even tried to see my son since removal and my ex is to live with him once released from prison so dont see how he can be considered.
Exs mother works and has younger son with adhd and high autism and my ex comes and goes from her property. So cant see how she can be considered.
If no family member is found its adoption!!!! or return to my care but this has not been recommended by LA.
I fail to understand how i can have son adopted when since march i have done all that has been asked.
I am in counselling sessions now as recommended which has taken some doing to find qualified free counselling.
I attend all meetings, have good contact with son, take him for health checks go for days out and have 13 hrs contact per week monitored in the home.
So i don't understand what im doing wrong???
Ange you mentioned about epo from LA. When this case first started LA went to court asking for EPO or ICO but i was advised to sign section 20!!! I was told by my solicitor at the time they wouldnt have got an EPO but would have got ICO!!!
Sw came to get permission for my parents to see my son and for my ex to see his son!! I have granted both as i dont want to be seen to not be working with LA!! plus ex is to obtain PR once out so he would get contact regardless.
I am panicing so much now as i know i only have 4 weeks and have to file within 10 days yet no communication with legal team for 4 weeks now, i cant think this is normal??
Very low times for me right now as im been kept in the dark.
Any thoughts would be grateful.

[Murray72]

Warthog,
I hope you have some support in place for after the Final Hearing regardless of the outcome this can be such a hard time, your suddenly free of court's and solicitors and can feel abandoned. If you don't have any support in place I would look at speaking to your GP and any other agencies you think can support you.

After months of pressure it can be very difficult to heal after these events so please do not be afraid to ask for help and support.

In response to your post CS will look at anybody within the family that may be a carer for your Child, and write a report for the Judge on suitability of these people as this is what a Judge will ask of them if removal is the only option. These reports can be very damning and often reveal information about family members you may not have been aware of, such as any previous convictions or medical history,I discovered my Ex sister-in-law had a criminal conviction for neglect during this process and a history of alcholism, just because they are speaking to these people do not assume they will be considered suitable by CS.

Also the threshold for the ICO in the magistrates court is fairly low and often these are easy to obtain, your legal rep will know this hence the advice to sign the section 20.

I hope all goes well for you with the Final hearing and the future.

[ange301126]

[quote="warthhog123"]
I am no further on and 4 weeks to the day to final hearing.
I have tried to get hold of solicitor to no avail, I have rung left messages and emailed concerns and questions. NOTHING!!
LA was due to file last thursday, i havent received anything as yet.
I am to file in ten days and dont know what im suppose to do!
I have had no answer from anyone when i ask why is long term fostering not an option to allow me time to prove myself.
I fail to understand how i can have son adopted when since march i have done all that has been asked.
I am in counselling sessions now as recommended which has taken some doing to find qualified free counselling.
I attend all meetings, have good contact with son, take him for health checks go for days out and have 13 hrs contact per week monitored in the home.
So i don't understand what im doing wrong???
Ange you mentioned about epo from LA. When this case first started LA went to court asking for EPO or ICO but i was advised to sign section 20!!! I was told by my solicitor at the time they wouldnt have got an EPO but would have got ICO!!! "

dear warthog,I suggest that when advising you to sign the S20 in the first place ,your solicitor was wrong because he or she did so without a full knowledge of the circumstances.According to the solicitor they wouldn't have got an EPO thus there was no reason to remove the baby from your care immediately ( an act which has caused inestimable mental torture and harm to both of you in breech of article 3 of the European Convention).
The Local Authority,in my opinion ,could not possibly have obtained an I.C.O. legally at that time or later without carrying out a core assessment in conjunction with you ,allowing you to express agreements and disagreements and without circulating it to the court and all professionals involved such as the guardian and psychologist and to you and your lawyer. The assessment would by law have included all the alternative courses of action which could have been taken to protect the child from any genuine alleged risk of harm and any reasons the Local Authority had for rejecting them. Then you would have been able to respond to the Magistrates as you are supposed to be allowed to do.Only then would the solicitor have been able to judge whether they would have got an I.C.O. or not!
Alas ,we have been all through this before though and it is obvious either your solicitor is wrong or I am. Perhaps I am wrong and it is not necessary for the social workers to follow legal guidelines and court orders at all times. Perhaps the Judge will find it is quite right and proper for them to leave producing a core assessment until after the experts have made reports and assessments without one!
They have now had the opportunity to concoct evidence against you and they have used the time.
Procedure has not been followed correctly and legal guidelines haven't either!
Legal principles have been ignored ( did you get my private message?).
Alas,what can you do.Follow ESMES ADVICE AND STAY POSITIVE AT THIS TIME.
Please tell me what are the Local Authority due to file next Thursday?

[warthhog123]

Hi
LA were suppose to file last Thursday yet surprise they have not and no one knows why???? I know why because social worker is waiting for my ex to be released, and is trying to find wider family to raise my son!!!!!!!! or find more rubbish for adoption.

The LA say they had CPO and Non molestation order ect to warrant ICO EPO!!!!!!!
Social services have never asked me to do anything to help get my son returned, or encouraged any positive effects towards me.

I have wrote to local mp see if it helps