I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

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I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by justice007 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:02 am


I called social services to try and help protect my twin daughters from emotional abuse by their mother.

I thought they would help us...

I told the social worker and the nyas guardian that I think the kids are making up allegations... i said know some of the things they are saying are true because I have witnessed them but the new things they are saying I think they are making them up.

For example they said mother was hitting them and that they didn't want to see mother anymore.

Social worker called me after they told her this and asked me if I had ever seen bruises or red marks on them after they spent time with mother. I said no.

3 days later after I told them I think kids are exaggerating or making things up, and I don't know what do do, how can we deal with this etc etc... the guardian was at the county court saying she thinks the children should be removed because I am pressuring the children to make up allegations against the mother.

Guardian lied that I was too upset and angry to talk about the children properly so that her recommendation was they be removed

I said this isn't true, I tried to explain what we spoke about 3 days earlier and I said I know you won't believe me over her but I have an audio recording of the meeting that will show you exactly what we talked about.

Judge got angry at me and the children were removed from my care.

for about 8 months I had only supervised contact with my daughters after having raised them for 11 years on my own.

The social worker refused to give me or the court the supervised contact reports. I think this is because all the reports praised me and the quality of the contact we had. They also showed that the girls were expressing some disturbing things about being with mother. that they were hungry and that mother would cook dinner for her and her boyfriend and then eat on their own and the girls would have to make toast for dinner on their own. And many other things like this.

All of these things could be reasons why the girls were at first telling the things that normally should have been looked into but were ignored and I'm guessing this is when they started exaggerating or making up that mother hits them so that someone would help them.

anyway, i fear this is going to cause further problems down the line as kids have continually said they want to live with me and the guardian and social worker won't be happy until they break off all contact.

I am afraid to complain as they intimidate me and tell me that if I complain they will say I am obsessed with the past and this anxiety is what the children are picking up on and why they don't want to be with mother when there are hundreds of real actual reasons why kids don't want to spend time with mother.

please help me I have no money and I am a foreigner in this country.

please help my children.

thank you.

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Re: I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by justice007 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:40 pm

I should add.... the first audio recording of meeting with Guardian I recorded without permission... i know this is bad but I had no other course...

I knew the kids were making things up... i knew half the stuff was untrue, i tried on my own telling the kids that I am happy they spend more time with their mother because this gives me time to work or spend time with my friends or tidy the house etc etc... they kept resolute in their claims against mother... I know there mother has serious problems and has done seriously bad things in the past but I couldn't be sure so I turned to social services and nyas...

I thought someone is making stuff up, either the guardian and social worker are lying in their reports or the kids are making things up or both I don't know...

so that was the reason I recorded the first meeting...

after the kids were already removed because of them lying - if they were honest about my concerns I would think the judge would have helped us or put some protections on the children from their mother or some steps to safely find out what exactly is happening at mother's house. I said on recording in meeting with them before hearing where kids were removed that I would imagine there are many reasons a kid would say these things... they could be simply trying to show loyalty to a parent, they could have uneasy time at mothers because mother would disappear out of their lives with no explanation for months at a time... mother had never been to any school activities in 11 years etc etc... and a hundred more I could list you of things that she did to them that would make them not enjoy time with her, or just not feel safe there etc but if they were honest with everyone the kids could have worked through that or perhaps even with full knowledge of what was happening protect the children with supervised contact or something until they felt ok with mother who knows....

so fast forward about a year and mother has sole residency of children and i have alternate weekends and a midweek contact.

Mother tried to shorten midweek contact to 1 hour even though court said it was for 3.5 hours and I finally got the full amount... then after that the guardian retired and I had nobody to go to for help and mother then cancelled midweek contact all together...

and when I had my weekend contact or week long holiday contact mother would threaten me to return the girls early for no reason...

once she even called the police and they showed up at our house and when they saw that the girls were to be with me for the whole half term they left us alone but we are being terrorized by her...

I have a final hearing in a few weeks and I am afraid that because kids are still saying they want to live with me that they will now cancel all contact between me and the children.

the kids will be 12 in september... they are twins.

I have recently asked mother via text message if we can restart the mid-week contact as it is in the order and i've been ignored as usual.

someone please help us as I fear that social worker and NYAS will keep pushing their lies to cover up their original lies about me and about where the children want to be.

one of the things the girls are really upset about is that they love music and of course I support them in their interests and I've purchased them the instruments they want to play - drums, violin, flute, harp and more... and mother doesn't let them do music at all...

anther lie that social worker and guardian have told in court is that the kids don't want to attend orchestra and this is why mother doesn't take them. This is a lie as everyone who knows them knows they love orchestra. I have letters from 10 neighbors and school families that attest to this.

how can they lie about me and the kids it is obvious they are advocating for mother not for the children.

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Re: I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by justice007 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:43 pm

I was thinking today that the only way these kids are going to stop saying they want to live with me is if I feed them toast for dinner like their mother and sell all their musical instruments and never take them to the museums and galleries and concerts they love...

when they see that I am just like their mother that is the only time they will stop saying they want to live with me... is that what I need to do?

please help us...

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:59 am

Dear Justice007

Welcome to the Family Rights Group Parents’ Forum and thank you for your post.

You seem to be having a lot of problems at the moment regarding your children and the involvement with the court process.

Although you say that your children want to live with you, it appears that they continue to live with their mother at present and this causes you concern as you believe they wish to live with you.

It appears from reading your post that you may be involved in a private law case. This means that the case is between your children’s mother and you rather than Children Services making an application to the court for a care order in respect of the children. If it is the case that this is a private law case, then if you do not have a solicitor representing you, you can contact the Coram Children’s Legal Centre for advice and information. Their telephone number is 0300 330 5480 or you can visit their website here.

If there is a court order for you to have contact with the children and the mother is not allowing contact, then you can go back to court to ask for the Order to be enforced.

The court has made a final decision about which parent the children should live with and you can only change this by applying to the court to discharge the order in favour of the children’s mother and ask for them to live with you. You will have to show the court that it is in the children’s best interests to live with you.

You should contact with Coram Children’s legal Centre for further advice. You should be aware that the children’s welfare will always be the court’s paramount consideration when making decisions about children.

Our remit at Family Rights Group is to advise where children services are involved with family due to concerns about the way children are being looked after within their families.

Best wishes


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Re: I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by justice007 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 10:58 am

Thank you Suzie for your reply...

I have called Coram previously... to give you more background Coram told me I should appeal the finding of fact judgement which all of this stems from...

Mother abducted the children 3 times since they were babies.

the finding of fact hearing was regarding sexual abuse against me and (by her exposure also the kids) by their mother. She also would violently beat me in front of the children. She stole my work visa and passport and my permanent leave to remain documents (i'm a foreigner) which meant that I couldn't work, couldn't get legal aide, couldn't get housing benefit, couldn't be free form her extreme control and abuse... to feed the children I had to submit to her abuse. She was also pocketing the child tax credit and child benefit fraudulantly because I was the acknowledged full time carer of the twins.

The judge in the finding of fact hearing refused to hear any discussion or see any evidence of financial matters. My counselor from ****** Victims Support told me this was severely flawed because this is exactly how abusers gain control over someone to abuse them. I then called Coram and they told me the same thing.

More background, It appeared to me that the kids were exaggerating or making new claims up against their mother because they had basically been abandoned by mother for a really long time and didn't feel comfortable spending more time with her and that there were troubling things mother was doing yet nobody helped the kids, they were ignored and i was ignored... I eventually called social services to get help, even though i was afraid as in the past when i reached out for help i was laughed amongst other things, women abusing men seems to still be a taboo or not something taken seriously.

so i had to put the children first and try and get some help for them, I TOLD social services and also the NYAS Guardian that i think the kids are making up allegations against mother. I said there could be many reasons they are doing this, they could simply be uneasy spending more time with mother, they could be trying to show loyalty to a parent, or worried that I wouldn't be happy that they spend time with mother, but that I repeatedly told them I was happy that they could spend more time with mother as I could work more or get to do stuff with my friends etc etc to try and alleviate their worries if this was the simply reason they were making up allegations.

It could also be that there were some legitimate concerns I don't know what these could be, how can we make kids feel safe or at ease about spending more time with mother? Can we all get together around a table and we can speak to the kids and tell them its ok?

I recorded my meeting with the NYAS Guardian because it became clear to me they weren't being honest or putting the kids first, for example one of the girls fractured a hand at mother's house and mother refused to take her to A&E as she was busy watching tv with her boyfriend. When kids were returned on sunday night I know something was wrong despite mother not letting me know child was injured. I finally got child to tell me what was wrong and she said she hurt her hand on Saturday but mother ignored her so i took her to A&E immediately and after X-ray was told it was a fracture.

This could be one of the reasons children didn't want to spend more time at mothers because this is how they are treated. I told Social Worker and NYAS Guardian about this and they said it wasn't important that they only want to hear about stuff that is happening now.

I began to suspect that they cared more about covering up for mother than protecting or helping the children.

This is when I recored the meeting with NYAS Guardian.

3 days after this meeting that was recorded NYAS Guardian and Social worker said children had to be removed from me immediately as I was too upset after the recent finding of fact judgement that I couldn't put the children first and that I might be passing on my anxieties about mother to children or telling the children what to say and that at the meeting 3 days ago I couldn't discuss the children or their future because I was so upset about the finding of fact judgement.

I told the judge what we really did talk about and that I know it might seemed far fetched because of the testimony of the NYAS Guardian but she is lying and i listed what we talked about and I said I know nobody will believe me over the GUARDIAN but I recorded the meeting and this will show you what really happened.

judge got angry at me instead of wanting to hear the recording and see that the NYAS Guardian was lying to remove the children from my care.

bottom line I felt i had to keep submitting to the judge, that due diligence regarding what the children were saying was ignored and what the medical records would show.

I even went back to the A&E to get the medical records and the hospital was taken over by a new company so all the previous records and systems were removed so I still have to contact the previous company and see if they can find the records showing the fractured bones of the children.

Why is the system covering up for mother and lying about me? They simply want to shift residency.

**edited by Suzie

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Re: I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by justice007 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:08 am

another lie from Social Services and NYAS Guardian was that during the 6 to 8 months I had supervised contact with my kids they were constantly asking to join the orchestra and I was ask the social worker and Guardian if they could, that I would even give my my supervised contact time to go with contact supervisor and take them to orchestra rehearsals and sit outside while they rehearsed and then return them to mother. I had a chance to put this to the judge and mother and and Guardian and Social worker lied to judge that kids don't want to join the orchestra.

Social worker has even refused to pass on the reports from the supervised contact worker that would show this.

there are many lies like this.

the kids are still upset about this and they don't have music lessons anymore and their mother doesn't let them sing or play music at mothers house.

We had a good report from the new social worker where they live now with mother and the old social worker submitted letter saying the reason the kids still want to live with father is father has no structure in his home.

This is another lie. We have structure, this is why the kids are at the top of their class, this is why the kids have an interest in playing in the orchestra and going to museums and drawing and writing and why they are so well behaved, polite, educated and respectful children. Children that have spent 11 years with no structure would not be these children so how far will the old social worker go to smear me and my children to cover up for their lies?

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Re: I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by justice007 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:35 pm

forgot to add...

early on in process Social Workers said they couldn't find any domestic violence in my own medical records (after they told me that kids untreated fractured bones at mothers house was un-important) so I paid 50 quid (money i couldn't spare) and got my medical records a couple of days before the finding of fact hearing - my own medical records had numerous injuries from domestic violence inflicted upon me by mother of kids. I had a video of mother of kids hitting me in front of kids, i had police records of police doctor documenting injuries from domestic violence all backing up my allegations of violence...

I had reported my immigration documents, passports etc stolen with the police, I had letters from banks showing mother of kids closed the family bank accounts so I had no access to money at all, no immigration documents, also letter from my MP showing mother was receiving tax credits and child benefit that should have been given to me as primary carer... i had bank statements from when I had a bank account after marriage split that backed up that mother would only make deposits after I was forced to spend time with her(have sex with her) so that I could feed the children as I had no money, couldn't work, couldn't get housing benefit, was being evicted from family home etc...

so because judge refused to see anything financial he ruled that the sexual abuse was consensual sex...

and this is what the social worker and Guardian used to say i was so upset after this ruling that i was now forcing the children to make up allegations against mother or passing on my anxiety about mother to the children... meanwhile they lied to court about my telling them i think the kids are making up allegations and that the kids had fractured bones at mother's house in her care and they were ignored and untreated and on and on...

then they said after Coram and my counsellor both told me I have to appeal the finding of fact ruling because extreme financial control is how abusers get control over someone to commit abuse and that judge couldn't have made a safe verdict without letting financial matters be seen or discussed in court they said that because I wanted to appeal the ruling that i was obsessed with the past and had mental problems... i have doctors reports showing this is not true.

I have letters from many people in the community attesting to my care of the children and even mother's erratic behavior and destructive behavior..

now that the children are still saying they want to live with me, what else will NYAS make up to keep covering up their lies to the court? What else will social services make up to keep covering up the real abuse mother has committed ?

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:51 pm

Dear justice007,

I am sorry to hear about the distressing time you and your children have had due to domestic violence. I am glad that you have contacted Coram children’s legal centre for legal advice about the private law court proceedings. We are unable to provide the expert advice that you need as this is beyond Family Rights Group remit. I suggest that you contact the Children's Legal Centre again.

However, I wonder what further support you could get yourself? I can see that you have a counsellor from victims support. What about contacting the helpline for male victims of domestic violence at Respect ? They might be able to signpost you to other support such as an advocacy and a programmes that deal with domestic violence.

Best wishes,

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Re: I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by justice007 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:42 pm

Thank you,

how many beatings does one need to suffer before the abuser is considered an abuser? Can you answer me that?

I am just asking is there any way we can have someone look into why social worker and Guardian lied in court about what we discussed so that they could remove the children without cause?

Shouldn't this matter? Isn't this a serious issue?

Or because it is a woman who is controlling and abusive that the children simply have to lose their father and continue to be put in distressing situations by the mother?

Talking to Coram won't help me now, I followed their advise, i followed the advice of my counselor from victim support and unfortunately the social worker and the guardian said that my wanting to appeal the judgement was proof that i was obsessed with the past, couldn't let go and was mentally ill... they then lied to the court about what I have discussed with them, how I have discussed it and what were my concerns after which the judge acts on those lies and removes the children...

do we have any way of getting a new assessment ?

shouldn't someone care about what the children are saying and that I told everyone the kids are making things up and listed various reasons off the top of my head why they might be making things up and please is there anyway we can take this pressure off the children or find out what really is causing them to do this for possible simple emotional reasons or if there are more complex or even more dangerous reasons they are making things up yet they chose to not help the children, not work through why the children are doing these things, cover up abuse, lie about me and the kids so outright remove the children from me after I raised them for 11 years with the school and neighbors and community members all writing glowing letters of support about me and the children?

to make matters worse after they have removed the children they are now trying to continue to dismiss what the children are saying by denigrating my parenting - that the reason kids still want to live with me is I don't have any structure in my home. I reckon the real reason might be closer to the children being told they are too stupid to have violin lessons, should have toast for dinner alone whilst mother and boyfriend have large proper meals and that they have to stay home alone whilst mother and boyfriend are out partying... going hungry isn't pleasant I do know this first hand so I can understand that the children would still keep saying they don't want to live with mother. Why do they continue to cover up for mother and lie about my parenting?

what worries me is where will this end? If they keep lying about me, or blaming me for the children wanting to live with me because I actually feed them healthy food and we eat dinner together and when they are hurt and take appropriate action like take them to A&E then they will of course keep saying they want to live with me...

Social Services will keep saying that I am the problem instead of addressing the real issues. Or will they after all this time finally say, i guess kids do actually like to eat something more substantial than toast for dinner? I don't think they will come around to this to be honest...

and now the mother is not even adhering to the court ordered contact for me and my daughters.

if nobody cares that Guardian lied in court to remove the children then I will shut up... I will submit and endure again... I only speak up because of the children having to suffer through the things they are telling me.

I tell the children that mother has a different parenting style than me and they have to do what mother says because she is now in charge and they are living with mother.

but how do you think they feel that nobody has addressed their concerns? that whatever reasons they made up that mother hit them might still be a concern to them? At what point will the children simply become too afraid to say anything now after how they have been treated?

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Re: I tried to get help for my daughters and Guardian lied in court to remove them

Post by justice007 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:45 pm

if social services is going to continue to lie about my parenting do i have to tell the children that even if they want to live with me that they have to say they don't?

I mean, is this what it takes?

Please let me know so that I at least can have some contact with my daughters?

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