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Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:20 pm
by Donsetter
Questions regarding a Non Molestation Order.
My son ( let’s call him Bart) is a drug addict, so is his partner of 10 year (let’s call her Marge). They have a Daughter of 17 months old, and Marge also as a 16 year old Son from a previous relationship. Social Services have gotten involved in their relationship because of domestic violence, (six of one, half a dozen of the other) their drug use, and having such a young Daughter (and rightly so).
Bart lives on his own in a rented house, Marge and the 2 children live in another rented house. The 2 houses are in the same village. They say they love one another very much, and are together as a couple. But Marge’s 16 year Son hates Bart (with good reasons). Social Services have had meeting with Bart and Marge and stated they were not happy with the current setup. They had a meeting with Marge without Bart, and coerced her into taking out a Non Molestation Order against Bart, or if she did not they would apply to the counts to have her Daughter and Son taken into care. So Marge complied with their demands, even though she says she did not want to.
Within a few days of the order being authorised by the court Bart and Marge had one of their falling outs. Marge rang the Police, Bart was arrested and taken to court and sent to prison, he did 12 weeks inside for breach of the None Molestation Order. The 3 Magistrates also extend the period of the Non Molestation Order from 12 months to 24 Months, ending xxxxx 2016 , they also told Bart that if he is sent back to court again for another breach of the Non Molestation Order he will be looking at up to 5 years in prison.
On release from prison (a Friday) Bart returns home, the next day (Saturday ), Marge knocks on Barts door, enters and leaves a couple of hours later to fetch their baby Daughter, Marge stays all Saturday night, and go’s Home Sunday Morning.
I spoke to Bart and Marge about their current position, and Marge confirmed that she did indeed contacted Bart by knocking at his door. Bart says he will commit suicide before going back to prison, just for loving each other and them wanting to be together.
Social Services seem to be adamant that Marge and Bart must not contact each other at all. or have any form of a relationship. Social Services must remember they are dealing with human traits and emotions. The word love can never be quantified or truly explained, not by courts, prison, or government bodies. The old saying is “they cannot live with each other, and can't live without each other.”

3 questions:- As Bart broken the order? As Marge encouraged him to do so? Is Marge guilty of anything in the eyes of the law?

Any help / advice from legal / or people that may have been in the same situation please. Regards DON

Re: Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:54 pm
by Suzie, FRG Adviser
Dear Don,

Thank you for posting on the Parent’s Forum.

We at Family Rights Group are very worried about this situation. The fact that your baby grand daughter has been taken to dads home by Mum has put her in a dangerous situation. Due to her very young age she is at a particularly grave risk of suffering
significant harm if she is caught in the cross fire between mum and dad.

We think that you should report this to children services or discuss the matter further with the
NSPCC. as soon as you can. Their number is 0808 800 5000.

If you decide to report your worries to children services, this can be done anonymously-so that your family need not know that it was you taking this protective step.

I am also worried that Mum herself is not getting the help and support she needs. Her actions risk losing her baby into care as well as putting her older son at risk as well. You could advise her to contact Women’s Aid for advice and support about how to protect herself and her children.

In answer to your questions –Dad has breached the non molestation order; Mum has been complicit in this; Mum risks her baby being removed from her into the care of the local authority.

Mum needs help to get the support she needs to protect her children from domestic violence.

I hope you can take my advice or discuss your worries further with the NSPCC.

Best wishes,


Re: Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:16 pm
by ange301126
Dear Donsetter, You are right to be worried about this situation especially by the way the social worker threatened Marg.This does not bode well and suggests the CS have already taken their own decision that the child is at significant risk of emotional harm as a result of witnessing all these domestics. Not only that , they seem already to have decided to remove the children into care should Marg not comply with the non- molestation order.Also drug-taking is illegal and addicts present a danger to children .
Whether or not they have followed procedures properly or not and whether the proportionality to circumstances of that possible action has been discussed with other professionals at a child-protection conference or not and whether they have discussed or offered counselling and support packages to keep the children with their natural family or not , I don't know. You have not made it clear.Have they discussed the possibility of letting the children live with you, for example?Families face a big,big problem when badly-trained ,badly-managed,over-worked, unfit-for-purpose social workers fail to work to procedural guidelines. When they don't act correctly babies end up dead! It has happened many times.Obviously Marg needs more support and supervision but they might never get around to it.

Quite by chance,if you look just below your post on this forum (in most recent posts) you will see a thread called 'Honestly can't see the light' .Read it!

You will see how much danger your grandchildren are in of landing up permanently separated from family. From how you describe it, you realise yourself that both Bart and Marg have to grow up! Go in there and knock their two heads together rapid. Impress upon them the seriousness of the situation.

In the meantime, I suggest you arrange for the baby to be looked after by a responsible member of the family ( possibly her mother or someone on your side.I suggest you do it pronto. If you don't act to place the child in safe hands, it will be done for you by the CS. I have no doubt they will get an Emergency order if you allow the baby ( and the elder child) to remain with Marg.When it comes to drugs,you never know what peril they are in. if you don't act immediately! You must not underestimate the deadly seriousness of the situation and danger the children are in yourself.Follow Suzies advice.

Re: Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:22 pm
by Donsetter
Hi Suzie,
Thanks for yours and Ange 301126 reply, and the advice given from both of you, which I have taken on board.

I have done some research since the original post and read the links you highlighted, and read the post suggested by Ange 301126. One link I would like to highlight for others in this situation is one on the internet entitled;-

exposure - please don’t take my child (forced adoption exposed). Just copy and paste into your web browser.

Did they say 1,860 children forced into closed adoption last year alone, and currently 4,000 in the system awaiting adoption! This needs looking into in more detail surely. Where is the Humans Rights of the child to be with its Parents covered? Or is that something that Social Services don’t want us to know, or even ask about?

Regards DON.

Re: Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:20 pm
by ange301126
Dear Donsetter, You are absolutely right.The Children's Act which says that children are better cared for by natural parents does not work.The CS fails in its duty to children due to incompetence and financial reasons also many sw's are corrupt. Of course , they don't want us to talk about it.
However, it will get you nowhere quoting statistics like that to the Magistrate should the CS apply for an order next week. I suggest you do something quickly yourself to place the baby in safety.
The problem is that Marge and Bart both take drugs and seem to have become used to domestic violence.The baby is helpless.It will only take a fall whilst holding the child, perhaps one of them dropping it accidentally or worse ,if the baby won't stop crying,Bart might get frustrated and/or angry and give it a good shaking or even worse. It's your duty to do something about it because should the CS get hold of the child he or she will have a very sad and second-rate life in the care system.
I hope your next post reports something positive.

Re: Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:40 pm
by Suzie, FRG Adviser
Hi Donsetter,

I can see that you are very worried about children services involvement with your family.
However, I want to refer you back to Ange’s advice. He has given you good advice where he has set out very clearly the risks that your granddaughter currently faces.

As a grandparent, you will want to ensure that your granddaughter is safe. You will want to know about a plan to protect your granddaughter and keep her within the family.

For example, there is help and support for both parents.

It is not clear that mum and dad are being offered this support. Are they engaging with support to help them both with their drug use?
Adfam offer relatives advice about this.

Mum is a victim of domestic violence. Without support from professionals such as
Womens Aid it can be very difficult and in many case impossible to stay away from an abuser (as Mum is expected to, while the assessment is going on)- never mind leave an abusive relationship-if it is decided that it is the only safe thing for her to do.

Dad can access domestic violence intervention programmes. He could contact
Respect-who have a helpline. They could let him know what services are available where he lives.

When he left prison was he offered any programme? If he has a probation officer he could ask about support that might be available.

If children services were worried that your granddaughter was at risk of suffering serious harm then they would look to protect baby and mum together-that’s what they are expecting is happening at the moment. Women’s aid can advise what other support might be available such as a refuge or emergency accommodation.

They should help dad have safe contact with his daughter. This is likely to be supervised until they are sure about how risky dad might be. Family and friends can be assessed to be involved in this supervision.

Has a family group conference been offered?
If mum agrees, a Family Group Conference (or meeting) could be organised to see what support is available in the family and friends network.
This can also be used to find family or friends who could be assessed to care for baby, if children services are worried that mum is not protecting baby from domestic violence and drug misuse.

Ange is also quite right to say that the law thinks children are usually better off being brought up by their family.
In the worse case scenario-if your baby grand daughter is removed by a court order (or with mum’s agreement), then children services need to consider placing baby with:

• Dad if he is considered suitable after an assessment, and if not,
• they must place your granddaughter in the most appropriate placement available, in this order:
a. “with a relative, friend or other person connected with the child who is also a foster carer”-
b. stranger foster care.

In an emergency, children services can place children with family members as long as basic checks have been completed. They would then go on to assess the family member or friend as a foster carer.
Are you able to put yourself forward to be a carer or is there anyone in your family or friends network who could do this? It can be distant relatives as well. Contact details can be noted on your grand daughters file.
Only as a last resort should adoption be a plan.
Have a look at our advice sheet about friends and family stepping in to care for children in an emergency.

I have given you a lot of advice. I am very worried about your granddaughter.

To discuss further, you or mum or dad could call our advice line to discuss further. Or please post back.
Best wishes,


Re: Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:44 am
by Donsetter
Hi. Thanks again to suzie and ange 30116, and in anticipation of the many others that I believe will respond to this post.

A little more information on Bart and his family, he is ** year old and been on all kinds of drugs from the age of 15. He’s on benefits and do’s not work. He sees ad-action on a regular weekly basis for his Methadone prescription. We his parents see S**** the charity that provide great help to the families of drug addicts. I am his Dad, and am ** year old, his Mam is ** year old, worked all our lives, and never been on drugs, or in any trouble. He has a Brother still living with us aged ** year old not on any drugs and in full time work (talk about chalk and cheese).

(Marge is on drugs, drink, and suffers from mental health problems) ******. Social Services are now heavily involved. (good job they are).

The problem seems to be that Social Services seem very reluctant to work with Bart and Marge in trying to keep the family together as a unit, which is what Bart and Mage say they want. All Social Services seem to want is Bart out the picture altogether, and if that’s in prison for a year or more that’s fine with them. They knew that the N.M.O. would do that when they coerced Marge into taking it out, by threats of removing her Daughter and Son, if she stayed in a relationship with Bart. Is that not mental torture by the Establishment? N.M.O take on a life of their own, they belong only to the Court, and they now seem to be written in stone along with the 10 commandments. What Social Services say carries where a N.M.O is concerned. To quote Ange 30116 “The problem is that Marge and Bart both take drugs and seem to have become used to domestic violence. The baby is helpless” end quote. And I totally agree with that statement. But once a N.M.O. is granted by the Courts it becomes a Criminal Offence if broken, no matter who instigates that breach of the order, it’s the named person that takes all the blame, and may well end up in prison. Some people may ask if that’s British Justice at it’s best?

When will the courts and Social Services realise they are not Gods, and that they are, or should be working with the people, weather on drugs or not, and giving them the help they request and need to make their relationships work.

Again thanks of the forums help and advice, which I have taken on board. Don.

***edited by Suzie to protect confidentiality.

Re: Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:27 am
by ange301126
Dear Temp,
I agree with you absolutely. The sw's have no right to decide that a parent will never be in a position to care for his or her own children.Their job is to support families in order that children can remain with them.
Aggrieved parents claim that the CS is more interested in ' shanghai-ing' children for the care system than it is in doing its level best to keep families united ,offering practical support and supervision to enable it. Apalling,i know, but it happens and it is claimed that Local Authorities gain financially by taking children into care. However, they incur expense when they have to offer support and supervision. The cure for this would be for the government to switch its finances away from care-homes,the foster-care system and adoption incentives into direction of support,supervision homes and education,in my opinion.
There are unlikely to be any changes soon though. Maybe in the 22nd century!

What has happened as regards Baret,Marge and the children?

Re: Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:47 am
by Donsetter
Hi Ange301126
I don't know if I am doing right by highlighting my response to a confidentiality e.mail sent to me by Suzie. But hear goes


Ange 301126 Now back to your question
Regarding Bart, Marge and the children. Bart currently back in prison and on remand, awaiting trial over further breach of Non Mol Order. Children still with Marge. Will post more when out come of trial is known. That is why I believe the redaction of Marges profile will detract greatly from the post, and any future posts on this topic
Regards Don.

edited by Suzie to remove PMs

Re: Son sent to prison over a Non Molestation Order.

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:27 am
by ange301126
Dear Donsetter, To be brutally honest, (you have read Warthhogs thread ) , I anticipate that wrongly or rightly the CS will target the baby for adoption.

So you should support the ( loving) couple in the best way you can.
Suzie has provided a lot of advice and links to agencies which can help also advice as to family involvement through a family conference etc.
Of course, the sw's should organise all such family support but it is obvious they have no intention of doing so.

I think Marge needs supervision to care for the baby at this time .Can you arrange for it? Bart can get help inside but someone has to help her outside.If you think they love each other so much then you will want to help her aswell as Bart. In the long run, maybe they will thank you.
Follow Suzies advice.It will be in the best interests of your grandchild to stay out of the clutches of the care system ( something of a misnomer in many cases).Remember that it the best interests of the child to reside with natural family according to all the Authorities and you personally have a duty to act in the paramount interests of the child.Your son is in a sorry situation and you naturally want to get him out of it but he has to take second place!
Do not encourage Marge or Bart to agree to an S20. Try and arrange for family support now! Expect the CS to apply for an order ( if they haven't already).Prepare for it and get the child into a place of safety quickly. Mum with the child,if possible. If that isn't possible because she refuses or because it is impractibable due to the state she is in, I suggest you ask Suzie if you can apply for a residence order or something similar.
Are you aware that there is another forum on this site dedicated to grandparents and family carers?You will probably get better advice there.This one is mainly for parents and Marge should be posting on here.