Advice please

[MystiqueOwl]

Hello, my partner has a child cruelty caution through his ex girlfriend and also she has a court order to keep their child away from him. (He really isn’t a bad guy, she’s making out he is) if me and him had a child together how would it affect us?

[Miserylovescompany2]

Hello

You could have a theoretical conversation with Children's services? Personally I would want to know the full story and not just one persons view on past events because that viewpoint wouldn't show the full picture.

Might I also add if you were to conceive a child knowing what you already do? This wouldn't be looked upon favourably on your part. "He really isn't a bad guy, she's making out he is" would be seen as minimising.

He will have paperwork - if he has nothing to hide then he will have no qualms in showing you. If he makes excuses - run for the hills...

What ever you decide? Make sure you are as informed as you need to be.

[MystiqueOwl]

Okay story is, he had a child with her (3 year old) and she had a son in a previous relationship (father died due to alcohol overdose killed himself due to stress and anxiety) who is the 10/11 year old, he slapped the 10/11 year olds bottom, as he was messing around at bath time and wasn’t listening and because the child was in warm water it showed up a bit, ex partner didn’t say anything about it but because the school saw it the mother straight away blamed him and she said she knew nothing about it, then she went on saying he is controlling in everything (iv been living with him for 2 years and he is not the person she wrote about in the paper work, his actually the opposite) she said he controls what they eat (which is a lie as he always asks me what I want for food) he always cooks (he does with me cause I don’t know how to cook, I can small things but not all plus his the better cook) also when their little boy was in her care he suffers with eczema he was really badly mistreated he face was all swallen and cracked so when my partner had him that same day he took pictures of the child in a really bad state it was all over his face and arms he looked in pain, but because my partner gave the 11 year old a slap on the bottom he got the worse off and because he admitted he slapped his bottom he got a caution in child cruelty. She told so many lies, when they were involved with social services he would video there days out as he was the one always with the children and she was never around, she would rather be at work and get extra shifts at work and go to the gym and go out then be with her family. He adores his child so much, has pictures of him, and always thinks of him. Yes I have seen all the paperwork and everything he has told me, was in this paperwork and I can get it at any point as it’s in the kitchen draw, he has nothing to hide cause he knows it’s all wrong and he told me everything that was in the paperwork. He was happy for me to read it and doesn’t hide anything from me which is why I needed to know what would happen if we had a child together, what and who would be involved. He had this caution 3-4 years ago, so not sure what will happen if we started a family next year.

[Kami2018]

It saddens me thay u say he just slapped him on the bottom...in today's law u are not allowed to and may I add I totally agree with this law I was slapped has a young child and I have never 4 got it in fact all it achieved with me was causing me to bed wet n the fact it comes across as your minimizing what action he took will not go in hour favour

[MystiqueOwl]

It saddens me thay u say he just slapped him on the bottom...in today's law u are not allowed to and may I add I totally agree with this law I was slapped has a young child and I have never 4 got it in fact all it achieved with me was causing me to bed wet n the fact it comes across as your minimizing what action he took will not go in hour favour

I’m not singing and dancing about it and I’m certainly not minimising it, I totally agree what his done his bad, I was hit when I was younger by a belt and a tea towel and a hand so I know what it’s like, so why would I be just phobbing it off but nothing was said back then. It was a silly mistake he done ONCE and this was the outcome of it. All I want to know is how it will affect us.

[Miserylovescompany2]

Hello again,

Thank you for sharing more information which lead to the actions taken against your now partner.

This is what I have found online...

"Parents have the right to make choices about reasonable punishments, but there is a fine line between "reasonable chastisement" (which is a defence in law) and assault (which is a criminal offence). A smack might be considered to be reasonable chastisement if it is."23 Feb 2017

The smack which your partner initiated was not deemed to be a reasonable chastisement. Might I also add that it was done in way that deprived a child of their dignity. In my opinion no child should be treated in this way it doesn't matter what the reason way. It was wrong on so many levels and should not be minimised.

Kami has shared her own experiences and shared how it made her feel. I would imagine this has left a psychological scar. As it will do with many adults - I include myself in this.

You have asked how will this affect you?

This would depend greatly on what work your partner has done around his parenting. However, this would only be part of it. Your own choice in partner could be looked at.

Might I also add that some forms of abuse creep up on you slowly - you might think your partner is kind and considerate? However from an outsider looking in they can see something different. I did when you mentioned he was better at cooking? You put yourself down. Sometimes an abuser makes themselves out to indispensable? When in reality they are not. They also make you feel that you are so lucky to have them. There was nothing wrong with his previous partner having her own interests external from the relationship - think about it please.

Can I ask how he describes other relationships that he has had aside from the one which he had a child in. Because if he claims they were all bad then something is amiss.

I am sure Suzie will give you more advice (FRG adviser)

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear MystiqueOwl

Welcome to the parents’ discussion board and thank you for your posts.

My name is Suzie, online adviser at Family Rights Group. It is helpful that you have given more details about the historical situation with your partner and how he came to receive a caution in respect of child cruelty.

You want to know what the impact of this caution is likely to have if you and your partner decide to start a family next year.

In your first post you say that your partner has a caution for child cruelty through the mother of his child. There is a court order preventing him from having contact with his own child. It seems you are suggesting that was happened was because of his ex-partner when in fact it was his own actions as stated in your later post that led to the caution.

You have had some advice from miserylovescompany2 about the way you can look at things in your relationship with your partner and whether some of his actions could be seen as abusive. From your point of view he is a good person and your relationship is fine. If you have any doubts you could make a request of the police under Claire’s Law which would give information whether your partner has in the past been in relationships which involve domestic abuse.

In relation to his son, did your partner challenge the mother in court so he could have contact with his child even if that contact was supervised? As you have seen all the court papers you should be aware of the reason or reasons the court gave for the decision not to allow contact. Contact is for the benefit of the child and for the court to say no contact suggests that there were significant concerns about your partner.

Turning to your specific question about the impact the caution for child cruelty would have on you and your partner starting a family, it would depend on a number of factors. Firstly, as your partner has had previous children’s services (the new name for social services) involvement regarding children, this is likely to be flagged up when it becomes clear he is to be a father. The midwife may make a referral to children’s services and it will then be for children’s services to decide the action they will take on the referral. Our advice sheet An introductory guide to Children’s Services explains the procedures that children’s services follow once they have received a referral.

If children’s services carry out an assessment they will want to know what changes your partner had made since the incident occurred in respect of his parenting ability, how you view the historical background and whether you will be a protective parent. A lot will depend on the circumstances at the time and whether there are concerns about the ability of you and your partner to safely parent a child.

Children’s services would become more involved towards the later stages of your pregnancy from about 20 weeks onwards if there is to be a pre-birth plan or if considering whether the unborn child should be on a child protection plan. It is difficult to say what will happen because it will depend on the concerns, if any, that children’s services have regarding risk to the child. It may be that you and your partner are asked to do parenting courses or engage with domestic abuse services if there is a history of domestic abuse in either of your past.

It is possible that children’s services may not have any concerns and will not be involved at all but they will have to look at your circumstances at the time. The fact that your partner has a history involving child cruelty does, I think, mean they will be involved initially in order to make a decision one way or the other. If they do decide to take further action this could be either Family support or Child protection procedures.

As mentioned in one of the responses to your post it is important that you do not minimise your partner’s behaviour or try to blame his former partner for the situation he finds himself in. Children’s services are likely to be concerned about whether he is a risk and the level of risk. If you are not seen as understanding their concerns you may not be deemed a protective parent. You may not intend or want to minimise his actions so it is important to use appropriate language when speaking about what happened.

The important thing is that whatever children’s services decide is the way forward it is important that you engage with the process in an open and honest way and be willing to work with them.

You may find it helpful to speak with an adviser about your case and you can telephone our free confidential advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30am to 3pm Monday to Friday.

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie