Honestly cant see the light

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Honestly cant see the light

Post by warthhog123 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:58 pm

how long? what to do?

I have just had my 4 month old baby removed by social services due to risk of serious harm, i had a non molastation order agaist the father but unfortunetely i allowed him into my home on several occassions to let him see his son. father in prison now but im paying ultimate price by losing my son! been to court and i have agreed to leave him in care as i have to prove i can prevent the risk happening again.
I am going to struggle to prove myself when i lied and social services now hate me and think i cant ever keep him from harm, but there is nothing surer than i will not ever have contact with the babies father as long as im breathing, but its proving it to the ss. how can i recover from this, i miss my baby every minute of every day not back in court for 3 weeks and cant prove i can keep away from the father as he is in prison and it will be middle of july before he is out! so i am going to be without him for ages i am barely keeping it together, second contact visit tomorrow but its so hard ive got to see him in false enviroment for 2 hours then go home without him! because i lied and it was all my own fault i feel like no one wants to help me get him back. any advice grateful very worried upset and full of guilt self hatred and shame for what i have inflicted on myself and my son!
I really feel he wont be returned to me, i wonder if offering to move would help.
Update from first post!
I had first contact yesterday, turned up 20 minutes early with desperate need to see my son. contact at 10. at 10.15 i text social worker to say no one had turned up! she rang and said oh have you forgot to change your clock its only 9! i said sorry, but then checked with passers by and speaking clock to find out i was right and it was in fact gone 10! I text social worker who didnt ring but text and said sorry there had been some confusion over staff and they would have my son son to me at 11 and to go home and come back!
Today was suppose to be second day of contact, i walked carrying breast milk and his play mat and toys waited an hour having tried to contact social worker to find out what was happening! i waited for over an hour then got a call from family support to say they were extremely sorry but the worker hadnt turned up for contact so therefore i wasnt able to see my son, so not able to feed him or give my milk! they however offered extra hour tomorrow! I am devastated to say the least!
My solicitor is too busy in court and meetings to take my calls, social services say its nothing to do with them about contact, and thats it basically so i get to sit and wait for another agonising day without my son!
I am well aware its ultimately my fault this is all happening but i really feel punished enough not having my son.
No one has had anything to do with me since court on friday last week, i know everyone is busy and staffing has lapsed but that doesnt help me in the slightest.
very hard to prove your self and show willing when this happens.

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Re: Honestly cant see the light

Post by ange301126 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:16 pm

Dear Warthog, I am sure Suzie,the advisor at the FRG will contact you soon with advice but in the meantime I suggest you get the support of a relative or failing that a close friend who can help support you and your baby.They can attend contacts with you and bear witness to anything that happens including visits to your solicitor. Keep a note of everything as it is easy to forget things under pressure.

I disagree with you absolutely ( on what you have said here) that you 'lied' to anyone.It is not your fault at all! You appear to have protected your daughter with a non-molestation order suitably.Then you were molested by the man who put you under extreme pressure outside your home.Then you succumbed to pressure and acceded to his demands and threats by letting him in to see the child.Then you acted responsibly by calling the Police. What more could you have done,waited until he broke the door down!
Keep in touch and let us know what is going on. If you have now signed an S20 voluntary accomodation order you can rescind it at will.Tell the Social Worker that the man is in prison and that you believe it to be in the best interests of the child that he be returned home pending any further assessments.Don't forget to take someone with you for support preferably a relation who can offer you help and protection perhaps even a temporary home.If the social worker disagrees with that quite reasonable request then he or she will have to apply for an emergency protection order from a Magistrates Court and you will have a chance to put your point of view in Court.
I hope you read this advice before it is too late.We signed an S20 and have had cause to regret it because we trusted the CS to make correct enquiries whilst it was in force but they just proceeded to amass false evidence against us. our children suffered significant harm in care and the harm they suffered at the hands of the system was cited in Court as though we were responsible for it! Don't act to take them back without advice from your solicitor however if he doesn't support you and give a good explanation you can do so anyway.Possession is nine tenths of the Law and if you take the baby back into a secure environment ,the Magistrate should support you.Hope this helps.

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Re: Honestly cant see the light

Post by warthhog123 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:53 pm

Thank you for your reply, but if i hadnt signed the section 20 they would have just been granted it in court, so my solicitor says anyway. If i tell my solicitor i want him home they will just say im going against the protection of my son. Not one person thinks i will get my son back thats whats so hard to bare.

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Re: Honestly cant see the light

Post by ange301126 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:35 pm

I repeat that the S20 is a voluntary agreement which you can rescind at any time. The Social Workers are abusing your child's human rights by not keeping to agreed contact arrangements Thus you cannot care for him and they are causing him significant harm.You have responsibility for your baby and have every right to protect your son and care for him.You cannot reasonably be expected to stand aside and allow your son to be harmed by social workers who appear to be failing to keep to the agreement. Based on my experience,as confirmed later in our case by the family court judge who criticised the social workers in Court , they are abusing the S20 ; Probably their main object is to part you from your child whilst they prepare a case against you and take the case to the Magistrates for an INTERIM CARE ORDER. Please note you were subjected to abnormal mental and verbal stress and abuse from your (ex) partner and succumbed to it.He was breaking the non-molestation order not you and YOU WERE NOT UNDER A LEGAL OBLIGATION to inform your social worker of anything because there was no care-order.Preparing a case against you and getting a date in court might take a week or two and in the meantime the child ( and you) is suffering from human rights abuse.
Your solicitor's casual remark that they will get an emergency order anyway is just not good enough. He and the Social Worker should act with the child's interests in mind because they are paramount. They should not sit back and watch him suffer by separation.
It is the duty of the Social Worker to review care arrangements day by day .For a magistrate to issue an emergency protection order, the social worker must demonstrate the child is at IMMINENT RISK OF SERIOUS HARM. The man is out of the way for the time being. Why should your child not be granted his human right to a life with his mother?
At the moment Children Services have possession of your baby because you signed the voluntary agreement.You did everything you could to cooperate .They have broken the agreement without good reason and are harming your child.. If I were you ,I would tell your solicitor this in no uncertain terms.Children's Services are not empowered to interfere with your family life without a Court Order and at the moment they do not have one.

I know that all that I am saying may sound frightening and it is so much easier for Children's Services to get what they want when Solicitor's fail to put your side of an argument as per their duty.Yours should act effectively for your child before he suffers irreperable harm.You have to be strong not for yourself but for the child and make sure you tell the Magistrate the truth because often the Social Workers will not.
Remember that it will help tremendously if you get the backing of a responsible relative or friend. It is hard enough to work with a social worker who is against you but practically impossible without support because they will walk all over you as they have already shown by their feeble excuses for failing the contacts.

First and foremost you should stand up and make sure your voice is heard as in the heading to your previous thread but you must realise that it is pointless trying to impress the social worker who has her own aims. Make your solicitor put your arguments for you if you can otherwise get someone else on your side .

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Re: Honestly cant see the light

Post by warthhog123 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:00 pm

Thnk you for your responce, I am looking to change solictor as she is too busy to even speak with me until 17th april! this is of no help to me. I have left messages of urgency with regard to contact to no avail. I dont know if done right or wrong thing but im waiting for appointment to see someone from Advocacy alliance. I am seeing domestic abuse worker on friday!
Im more upset that i dont know my rights or what the hell is happening. All that has been explained is back to court on 19th to discuss psychological assessment of myself, and social worker wants all phone records and computer records to assess how much contact ive had with the father.
I honestly fail to see why my son is not with me whilst my ex partner is in prison
I dont know what to with regards the statement social worker issued to the court, as some information in incorrect and i disagree with the statement of im a lying, decietful, manipulating women, who is always going to put her son at serious harm with her desperate need to see the father!
This is rubbish, but im powerless to voice my opinion, my solicitor gave me the paper work after court on friday and said to read it at home then see her 2 days before court!
Well after reading all the paper work no wonder they think he is at serious risk of harm, ive never read so much rubbish, its the wording, its like my social worker has condemed me and made up her mind no matter what i do!

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Family Rights Group Response

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:15 pm

Hello Warthog

Thank you for posting on the board. I’m really sorry to hear about your current situation. It must be so distressing to be separated from your son.

I noticed that you have started another thread in this section about the same issues. That is fine but I’ll try to answer all of your queries in this thread rather than doubling up on both.

Court process
You mention that your son is accommodated under section 20 at the moment and that your solicitor encouraged you to agree to this. Section 20 is a voluntary arrangement and, in theory, you could certainly withdraw your consent to this at any time. As the matter is already in court, however, it is very likely that, if you did this, children’s services would be successful in getting an interim care order on your son which would give them parental responsibility for him, shared with you.

You might want to read through our advice sheets about care proceedings care proceedings advice sheet

I would advise that you continue to co-operate with children’s services as much as possible in order to rebuild their trust in you. Clearly your aim is to evidence to them that your son is your upmost priority and that you are willing to work with them and do whatever necessary to have him returned to your care.

I am assuming that your son is in foster care at the moment? If this is the case, I wonder if there is anyone within your family/ friends network who might be in a position to care for him instead? If there is someone who might be willing to come forward, I would certainly advise you to discuss this with your solicitor and/ or the social worker.

While it is important to co-operate with children’s services, it is also reasonable for you to expect good practice from them and to raise your concerns when this is not the case.

Children’s services have a responsibility to promote your contact with your son and to ensure that proper arrangements are made for this. I do not accept that contact is “nothing to do” with the social worker as this is absolutely part of her role.

I would advise that ask for a meeting to discuss the difficulties around contact so far and to ensure that things run more smoothly in the future. Emphasise that it is in your son’s best interest to have regular and positive contact with his mum.

There’s more detail about contact with an accommodated child in our advice sheet contact with an accomodated child

When a child is “looked after”, there should be regular “looked after child” review meetings to discuss how things are going, including issues around contact. The first of these should take place within 4 weeks of the child becoming looked after. Are you aware of this process? Has a meeting been arranged?

I ask because the meetings are chaired by an independent reviewing officer (IRO). This person is very key and a useful point of contact for you to discuss significant concerns such as about contact. You can read more about the is process in our advice sheet Duties when children are in the care system

I would also advise you to make a note of all of the difficulties that arise and to make sure your solicitor is aware of these.

Going forward
Although your ex partner is in prison until July, there are certainly other steps that you can be taking before then to evidence your commitment and ability to keep your son safe from him. These might include taking steps to move to a confidential address, engaging in a program for women affected by domestic violence etc.

As I have said, make it clear to the social worker that you are committed to doing whatever necessary to protect your son and ask her to be clear with you about the steps that she would like you to take to demonstrate this.

It is very important that you feel able to discuss all of the above issues with your solicitor as they are the key person in advising you about your case. If it is difficult to get hold of your solicitor, ensure that you are making notes about all of your questions/ concerns and take these with you to appointments with him/ her. Perhaps you could also ask if there is another solicitor within the firm who could deal with urgent enquiries from you if your solicitor is not available.

If you continue to feel that your solicitor is not listening to you or advising you clearly, raise this with them and ask that you find a way of working more effectively together so that you do feel more supported.

I hope that this is helpful. Please do keep posting and let us know how things are going and if there are any more questions you have.

Best Wishes


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Re: Honestly cant see the light

Post by ange301126 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:22 pm

Dear warthog123, how did you decide on that user name?

Suzie has given you good advice .Do your best to get on with the Social Worker. I stress the importance of support at meetings and so on and I am glad you are trying to arrange for some.I would like to warn you of one thing. If you go along with the Social Worker and leave your baby in voluntary care ,if she is planning to apply for an interim care order (it is almost certain she will get it if CS apply for one) then your baby will probably be separated from you against his interests for at least another nine months.He will be over a year old when and if he is returned after a final hearing.You must stress to your solicitor and any support worker that you are willing to accept a care-order and work with the Local Authority and cooperate with any assessments and so on but you feel it harmful to the child to be away from his mother. His human rights have already been abused contact wise and care wise,he has not received your breast milk because of CS dysfunction.This neglect will continue at all times the child remains in care unless you are re-united with him.

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Re: Honestly cant see the light

Post by Murray72 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:14 pm

I can only speak from personal experience but I would ensure you start by been honest with Children's Services immediately If your ex partner has contacted you from prison either by telephone or letter then let them know, once they have proof you have been dishonest then you have a long and difficult fight on your hands. You should cooperate with your babies SW and communicate freely. Attend all the LAC reviews and demonstrate ways you have changed your behaviour. I know you feel very strongly about your Ex been out of your life now, but the SW will want to test the reality of this once he is released back into the community and how you handle that, ie: informing them he has contacted you and phoning the police if attempts to break the order.

Agree to complete any assessments that may be offered, and get yourself some good Legal Rep asap.

Make sure all contact sessions are positive and the Child enjoys them, that the atmosphere is light and positive, it sounds obvious but a baby can pick up on a parent's distress. The last thing your would want is contact to be cut short on the day, if your baby becomes distressed.

Also why not try to discuss other ways to ensure Contact sessions run smoothly, maybe yourself the SW and the Carer's could sit down and arrange future contact dates and then there is no chance of mis-understandings ask if they can provide the dates in Writing or email to ensure your all on the same schedule. This is a difficult time for you and anything that can minimise your distress will help in the long run.

I know it feels impossible now but you have to understand the SW has to be able to fully trust you before they can accept you are a protective factor to the Child. This is not going to happen over night.

Good Luck

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Re: Honestly cant see the light

Post by ange301126 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:31 pm

dear warthog,
I agree with suzie and murray that you should do everything to cooperate with social services and so on.I am not a professional and the last thing I want to do is misdirect you. The child is your responsibility. However,it has to be said that very often Social Workers act in contravention of a family's human rights and against the paramount interests of children by interfering on the pretext of protecting a child against undefined 'significant risk' at the whim of a social worker without any real facts to support what they have done.
In your case ,the facts appear to be that you protected your child by arranging for a non-molestation order and called Police to have the man removed from the house.The child has not suffered any visible physical or emotional harm in your care. There is nothing except the social workers personal opinion of you on which to claim that the child will be endangered in your care at this present time.You appear to have attended court and agreed to sign an S20.Which court was that? Now you are waiting to go to court again on April 17th.The social worker appears already to have made her assessments for that hearing and sent them to your solicitor directly without consulting with you or asking you to express any disagreements.The papers appear to contain many untruths and misleading statements . You say " it is the way it is worded" They appear not to be following correct procedures as outlined by Suzie and they appear not to be cooperating as they should with the S20 and providing proper contact and care to your child.Your solicitor shows little interest in your case and has indicated already that she is going to roll over and accept the social worker's word over yours.
The question is to what extent do you go to cooperate when thy are clearly not interested.? I cannot answer that question, can anyone else?
The problem is that even professional advice often conflicts. Please remember the person who is suffering most is your baby.He has a right to be with his mother .Even if you were a criminal ,that baby would be with you right now in prison.It is the baby's right and yours.There are many alternative courses of action the social worker could take to protect the child but she has not considered them.E.G. Accommodation for you and the child together under some sort of supervision or for the baby to be taken to a member of your family who can supervise you.
There is no question what your family rights are as described by the Family Rights Group but how do you get your rights?

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Re: Honestly cant see the light

Post by warthhog123 » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:08 pm

Can anyone tell me if i would be aloud to go into a refuge with my son?
Can anyone tell me if there is any remote chance i will get my son home?
I just read that 97% of children in care dont come home, this has knocked me for six!
i really feel i have nothing to hold on to when social worker wnt tell me a thing and solicitor is too busy with other cases to even speak with me! i have 4 pages of questions and no one seems very interested.
I have offered the following and got no response what so ever :-

* To move house
* To cut all contact with his family
* To under go all assessments
* To attend all meetings
* To attend any relevent courses
* To have itemised mobile bills
* Allow them access to all computer ie e-mails
* To have cameras installed ( Drastic i know)
* To have any professional any time day or night without appointment
* To attend all contact with my son in positive way, and to be early
I am at a loss as to what more i can offer to have him returned.
I know this about what i did and i am not taking away the severity and know what i did was so wrong, but to allow me to fight i can only look at what i can do to ensure this never happens again, but very hard when sw has written it is her belief i will always put my son at risk due to my need to see my ex!
Plus its very hard to come back from the cold hearted words of me been i decietful, manipulative,lying women!
i am just about to read as much as i can with regard to advice sheets on here.

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