Does my past stop me from having a family life

Sugz
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:01 pm

Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Sugz » Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:56 pm

<t>Firstly this is not a poor me story but merely asking for some advice.<br/>
I won't beat around the bush an just lay out all the facts an if anything I hope people will appreciate that baring my soul to complete strangers is tough but I'm willing to because I believe in second chances an rehabilitation not just because it affects me personally but if society as whole doesn't then the system is flawed an humanity as a hole is in question..<br/>
I was convicted at a young age for conspiracy to murder which I am extremely remorseful an it will never leave! Nearly 20 years ago now during my sentence I went through the system angry an with no direction after some years I grew up an changed my behaviour my attitude towards my situation an made the best of my surroundings meaning I done courses to educate myself learnt different trades so once released I would have options as prison wasn't for me but I used my time constructively so if my second chance came I would be prepared.. so that day finally came an I was released back into the community where I started a relationship with a very good friend who had been a companion whilst I was incarcerated baring in mind I've been out in the community for over 3 years working at a homeless hostel as well as construction we spoke about having a relationship as we both have the same outlook an wanted to share life's joys with each other so the woman in question is an incredible woman that's shown great believe an courage in me she has a little bit of 2 as well as an ex husband so in order for us to live out this dream of ours I told probation and they were in favour and saw no issues with us having a relationship, I also said about contacting social services to reassure them as well as the ex husband, well this is where it's gets messy I'm low risk to everyone an therefore been released back into the community no history of domestic violence or child abuse but social services have said im a risk to my gf son?? I'm completely ashamed of my past but should it impact my life moving forward an dictate what I'm allowed to do as I have served my time as well as giving back to the community I know all that will not compensate for the loss of life.. so all I'm asking is is it unfair of social services to take this view even though all the other agencies working with me are saying I'm no threat.. also social services have said we can continue our relationship but only when her son isn't around now we know in reality this can't be a long term solution to make a solid foundation for our relationship I'm deeply in love with this woman an at no time would I put her in a position that jeopardizes the safety of her son!! Not only are they deniing us the opportunity to have a family life they have literally gave no clear or reasons an the outcome of thier investigation has not been proportionate not in any sense I do understand the safeguarding and promoting the welfare of children but I do feel they have made a harsh judgement on this case..<br/>
Please has anyone got any advice for me thank you</t>

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:08 am

Hello

Can I ask if Children's services assessed you as a couple? You make reference in your post in a investigation - do you know if the child (your partners son) was ever placed on a plan - CIN (child in need) or CPP (child protection plan) or is currently subject to either of these?

Has there been anything put in writing by Children's services? If they (CS) are stating you pose a risk to the child have they given an explanation as to how this conclusion was arrived at?

Sugz
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Sugz » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:22 am

Hi, so I made the the application through ss they then had a crisis meeting the next day then came out to see my gf basically telling her she had to tell her ex husband within the next couple of days, which she did, reluctantly as she felt pressured. As predicted he went crazy called ss and has been speaking with them for some time. Ss dis say to my gf that they wanted to speak with me and they did call me asking for me to take a day off work to meet with them at my gfs house so my gf and her son were also present they left saying probation have said your low risk so it should all be fine, then they called my gf saying they want to speak with her without me present the conversation is as follows( ss came and said to my gf we want you to sign this agreement as your bf is deemed a risk to your son he is to have no contact direct or indirect if you fail to sign we will ask your ex husband to take your son into full time care they gave no reason literally backing my gf into a corner having the threat of losing her son thrust upon her is quite extreme and obviously I agree with her signing this as he is her world without question or hesitation! As my partner was signing this the ss said we can now close the case, then once the document was signed the ss said we don't know if we can close it yet and we may have to place your son on child protection as you can imagine this has all been a complete shock to my gf an gas left her in pieces.. my gf sent an email saying she felt pressured an that she was seeking legal advice as this outcome has not been just an they haven't given any reason for thier descion. They then called my gf an said the following " 1 I the bf am low risk not no risk
2 the child's age he can't express himself so if he was in danger he couldn't say plus he's a step child therefore it makes him vulnerable 3 in my probation report it says I either am a murderer or I have murdered someone
4 if the decision gets overturned they will insist the ex takes court action for full custody.
Every bit of evidence they have I have given them from court transcripts to my parole report even a synopsis from my solicitor I have not hidden anything an been forthcoming in every aspect possible
So the 1st point I'm low risk, I'm low risk to everyone apart from members of the public which I am deemed medium risk.. anyone from the public would be classed as low risk 2 there are step children all ovèr the world are they all vulnerable, the boys age he can't express himself so what are is acceptable to be realistic 3 I was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder and therefore sentenced with others in the case if I was convicted of murder then that would be the charge 4 ss have said my fmgf is cam competant mum who goes above and beyond for her son so would a judge take away her son because of the partner she chooses ? The report will be sent to my gf next and I quote it will be a short report says the ss. Can I just say that at no time have I pressured my gf into taking this stance or yet made her feel bad for signing this document as she is protection her son ... while in prison if they deem you to have risk factors they give you courses to reduce that risk then once your risk is low enough you move an progress within the system I have yet to be given the option or opportunity regardless of weather I need to do it or not I Will jump through hoops an climb mountain if it means I can be with my gf an her son as we plan a future together..
I couldn't say if we were assessed as a couple or just about me an my past? Now for want of a better way of putting this ss basically said that because I'm a lifer I will be punished for the rest of my life an what if I go on to murder my gfs son..I mean c'mon no evidence of domestic violence or child abuse but social services can make those wild accusations completely thoughtless and slanderous

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:54 am

Hello again,

The agreement the your GF was forced/coerced to sign is not a legally binding contract. Children's services (new name for SS) should not be using underhand scare tactics to influence decisions. These contracts are unfortunately not uncommon - but your GF should have been given the time to seek legal advice and then make an informed decision. This did not happen.

The part in your post where CS threaten with court via the child's father would ultimately have to be a civil case. CS would have to prove to a court that the child was at risk of harm and that the mother could not provide good enough care amongst lots of other things. Look again at the wording CS have used "they will insist the ex takes court action for full custody" - so basically it wouldn't be CS taking your GF to court!

What reason would CS have to take the child and give to the father? Only a court has the power to make such decisions.

Might I strongly suggest both you and your GF start the complaint process. I would also suggest you each get a solicitor.

From what you have written I don't think you have been assessed as a couple. CS are using one parent against another to their advantage. How was the relationship between your GF and her ex prior to this? Has there ever been any concerns about his parenting ability.

Sugz
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Sugz » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:44 am

Hi
And thank you for your reply we are seeking legal advice about this and we've also been told not to make a complaint just as we want all the facts 1st.
As the ex husband has been constantly calling them saying he will go for full custody if it turns out that I can be around my gfs son, I know it must be difficult to allow another man to be around your child especially if he has a criminal past and I did offer to meet with him to reassure him personally but he declined that offer..my gf and her ex's relationship was good at the beginning but then he changed became rude and would ignore her belittling her an saying she's no good etc an overtime it got worse even when thier child was born he made very little effort so in the end she left him this was over a year ago now now i don't want this to sound like a points scoring system but the ex has beaten his own mum breaking her ribs his father got married again and because he didn't like his choice got drunk went back to thier home an trashed it be was attacked by his own friends because of what he did to them an now a gas a metal plate in his jaw so even his behaviour isn't the best it's all about control for him, when he comes to collect his son he takes him to his grandads because he doesn't know what to do.
My gf is intimidated by him and feels helpless as he has 50 % parental responsibility an she encourages the contact now the ex has saying he can't afford to come and see his son even though he works an is paid well but insisted my gf do the journey there an back an he will pay her £10 she's on benefits an can't possibly afford that money going on fuel even with the extra £10 so instead of every fortnight it's now every 6 weeks. And now he knows that I am around he's stopped paying for nursery because the more thier child is about the less time we are together.
I don't believe for one moment that the ex is making this about his son but more about himself I mean if it did go to court and the judge said well the mum an father can't have the child's then the little boy is then taken into care..
How do we prove to people that our relationship is healthy an pro social?
Am I wrong for wanting to settle down.
Cs didn't make this much noise when my own son was born. My ex went back to czhec as her mum was dieing of cancer an never returned

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:45 am

...and CS are threatening to place a child with this person. I am sorry that just beggars belief.

Do you know if there was police involvement during their relationship or if your GF ever spoke to her GP about the relationship? Because if so this makes her case even stronger if he ever was to initiate court proceeding.

If CS had enough evidence to back themselves up they would of already of started court proceedings in the view of removing the child. This isn't what is happening.

If the father is as bad as you have written and this is all about control? How safe would the child be in his custody?

This would be a civil case. CS would make recommendations. It is very difficult to actually access legal aid to initiate a civil case. If he did manage to do this your GF would get legal aid. Not many people on benefits are able to initiate civil cases. He would be hard pressed to do this if I am being totally honest. From what you have said I do not think he would meet the criteria for legal aid in the first instance. So you are talking thousands and thousands. He doesn't sound like he can afford to take that route. So unless he is sitting on piles of money then him initiating a civil case is unlikely. Do you know how much he earns? If so you could check to see if he is eligible for legal aid?

I am assuming they (GF and ex) have a verbal agreement on child maintenance. If he is going back on this then she has nothing to lose by going via the CSA (or whatever it's called now) I know that if there has been any form of DV in the relationship and your GF states this whilst setting up the service they don't charge an initial fee. He should be financially supporting the child. Your GF could go on the online calculator and enter his gross wage to find out what he should be paying.

Who advised not to initiate a formal complaint?

Was there CS involvement with your own child? Were there any restrictions placed on contact with your own child whilst they still resided in this country?

From what you have wrote I would actually record any other subsequent conversations with CS. I would suggest your GF does the same. It is not against the law to record for your own personal use.

Sugz
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Sugz » Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:04 pm

Hi
So my gf has said she only spoke with her family regarding the issues she faced with her ex, even his own mother said she will stand up in court an say he is not fit enough to take care of thier child as he palms him off with his dad, who I might add is the only person that talks to him..
He still pays maintenance but has stopped paying for nursery without no warning..
My gf has suggested composing an email to get ex stating these facts an if he pursues court they might both lose thier son? Is it worth doing he also stated that when she left him he said ( whatever man comes into your life I will make it hell)
Regarding my own son cs done a few checks an said everything was ok an they might keep an eye on things an that was it so this is why it's thrown us and cs should have a standardisation within thier practice but clearly not!
I really do appreciate you taking the time to reply and you have given us some useful information so on behalf of my gf an I we thank you..
Cs have said that they will not have any dealings with myself or my probation even though the information they are trading is about me, by law they have to respond to a solicitor and by doing that will it aggravate them more ? In all honesty can you see this whole situation being resolved so we can begin our lives

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:15 pm

With regard to your GF worrying about losing your child through a civil case based on what you have written and shared - I think there may be confusion between Children's services taking your GF to court and the father doing so through a civil case.

Civil case is private law. So the child's father would need to prove to a court that the mother could not provide "good enough care" amongst other things for the child. If Children's services were to give recommendations that the child should reside with the father? They would need to be able to back up with evidence what they were saying.

If CS take this to court - firstly they have to prove their case before a court accepts it in the first instance. These are the cases where a child can end up not living with either parent.

Children's services have not assessed you as a couple. If they (CS) are saying all the things you have posted about then it sounds as if they are cutting corners and using scare tactics instead of assessing you both. If CS are claiming you are a risk to the child without assessing you first and giving you the opportunity to challenge via your solicitor this is not right. If CS are using what you have given them, then you have a right to involve your solicitor. If CS haven't even bothered to contact your probation officer then something is seriously amiss - I would challenge this.

Judging by what CS are currently doing I think both you and your GF challenging this via solicitors is the only way forward. This way you both stand a chance.

CS don't expect people to stand up to them so they use underhand scare tactics are rule people by fear. This is not how the system is supposed to work and neither your GF are yourself should be made to suffer because a social worker and their team want to cut corners.

Sugz
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:01 pm

Re: Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Sugz » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:38 pm

Hi
My probation officer has sent a request for a meeting between the agencies to try an resolve this issue as it's not been proportionate, they are as confused as we are about thier descion my probation has also said about my gf and I seeking legal advice so before it gets to that can we arrange between us a better way of dealing with the situation, one can only hope but as we all know hope is not tangible...so we will just see.
My gf and I have also requested for any information they have on us as all this will be evidence for us to be able to build a case against them if it does go that far I have also contacted our local mp.
Everything we are doing is all pro social.

Thanks again sugz

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Does my past stop me from having a family life

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:04 pm

You are welcome. I do hope both you and your GF get a positive outcome without having to go down the route of involving solicitors.

A fair way would be to assess as a couple - even if that meant you having no contact with the child in the interim but knowing that you were working towards being a couple and being able to build a life together.

I guess you'd need to ask for timeframes - how long would an assessment take. What would be expected of you in the interim. It might be an idea to know what you want to ask prior to any meeting - this way you won't walk away even more confused.

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