Social Services & Police pressure

Lost
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:58 pm

Social Services & Police pressure

Post by Lost » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:15 pm

Hi I really need some sound advice if anyone can please:
Last Thurs eve 2 uniformed pc's knocked on my door, clarified who I was then in front of my 8 year old Dear Daughter told me her dad had been arrested but wouldn't say what for. They quizzed me abt keys to his property. (Her dad and I split up amicably around 2010 and we have remained good friends with dad being as much part of her life as he was before the split). I was in total shock. Never been in this situation.

Friday afternoon (after school) a school mum called me to say school had rang her to check they had the correct mobile for me. I rang School n they said it was ok just wanted to make sure they had correct phone number.

Friday evening Social Services arrived unannounced asked me to sign agreement that I would not allow my dd's dad to be in contact of any type with her. Social Worker said they had been advised by a non local police force that dad had been arrested on suspicion of involvement in underage sexual activity and so they needed to visit me to ensure the safety of my dd. I was flabbergasted. I dont believe for one moment that he could be guilty of such things and clearly stated this to the SW. I also pointed out that they had the completely the wrong surname for her and her Dad. I refused to sign agreement however gave verbal agreement that I would not allow any contact between them at all. SW did not know police had been the night before.

Saturday morning a DC from local police posted a note through my door asking me to contact her. (I was out when she visited) I rang her as soon as i got back in but she had already left work.
I then rang my dd's paternal grandparents-spoke to granddad to see if he could help me understand what was happening. He had spoken with his son in depth ; DD's dad had not been told on what evidence - suspicion of viewing indecent images of children. The only reference he got from the questioning was about an online conversation around 2years ago with a friend from school days. The friend had sent 3 images to DD's dad - Granddad said his son had showed him the thread and the images were naked girls looking to be between the ages of 16 - 18, didn't look younger than 16 possibly could be older than 18, however, DD's dad did not continue with the conversation, he ended it and did not return to it.

Sunday morning I rang the DC who'd left the note. She wanted to visit me with a SW. She wasn't aware of the previous visits from SWs or police. She was the most helpful so far however, another stressful conversation, where I asked why they were all so keen to speak to my daughter at this stage when there wasn't evidence to support such a conversation. She said she would look at the case and call me back. She did and advised me the information they had been given by the arresting force was not supported by any corroborating evidence so she wanted more information from the arresting force before making a decision of the need to speak to my dd. She concluded that as the DC in charge was not available until 3pm Monday she would not be able to get further information and would call me back on Monday.

Monday afternoon school called me advising SS had been in touch demanding to know who had collected my dd from school, what was my mobile number and under no circumstances to let my dd be collected by her dad.

Later that afternoon SS called me and said they were aware of the conversation with the DC on Sunday morning and as yet had no further information but would get some and visit me Tuesday

Monday 3pm I called the arresting officer to ask him to share information with my local police force so they could share with me to allow me to make an informed decision about the police and SS's having the Good Touch Bad Touch conversation with my dd. I also stated in that conversation I didn't believe the allegations and having known my dd's dad for 20 years were good friends. Whilst polite he wasn't helpful or compassionate; he insinuated that if my dd's dad and I were such good friends he would be 'looking into me'. I gave him my contact number and thanked him for his time

Monday 4pm - ish SS rang me said they would like to visit as they now had more evidence they would like to share with me - I agreed to them visiting that evening.

Monday pm SS and a PC arrived; they did have more info than they had on their first visit (Friday evening) and this time they had the correct surname for my dd. However it wasn't any more info than the local DC and the arresting DC had given me, basically it was the crime sheet text which was very ambiguous in nature. I still had no doubts as to my dd's dad's innocence. At this stage I pointed out this info still did not warrant the good touch bad touch conversation so it would not go ahead. They explained the context of the conversations that would take place if I gave consent and that they liked to hold these conversations at school. as school was considered a safe place by children and that no names or people would be mentioned so she wouldn't know they were quizzing her about her dad.

I repeated I did not give my consent and if I ever did give consent to it would have to happen at our home. I added my dd had a couple of years ago at school, been forcefully taken to the toilets by a boy 2 years older than her where he then exposed himself to her, my dd told me what happened, we got school involved and it got sorted. I also explained that as my dd had been present when they told me her dad had been arrested she knew that all these visits off strangers were connected to her dad and was concerned so regardless of how they did the conversation she would put 2 and 2 together instantly (It is noted in her school records and reports that her comprehension is a couple of years above the expected level for her age (though maths needs attention))

I added it was a different person on each visit, and each person asked me to reconfirm I would not let dad see my dd, I asked if they doubted my integrity on this matter - they said they wouldn't ask again. I also said I was going to seek legal advice as I have never had any dealings of this sort with the police or SS and was finding it very very stressful.
I also confirmed that if they had any concrete evidence that my dd's dad was a criminal I would reconsider the good touch bad touch situation. It irritated them that I was not prepared to make a decision on the good touch bad touch conversation based on what they believed the ambiguous allegations and lack of evidence to mean but seemed to accept my decision.

As they were leaving they said they would need to come back to speak to my dd just to check she was OK. I insisted that they spoke to her there and then, they seemed surprised by this and not entirely willing to agree but after some hesitation they went back in and said Hi to my dd and asked her about school etc. They said Thank-You and commented she was very sweet and that they would be in touch and left.

Today I have thankfully not been contacted by either the SS or police

My problem is: I feel the SS and Police do not have my dd's or my best interests at heart, I feel that they will go to any lengths to tick boxes on actions taken and cover themselves - their lack of evidence indicates to me they are having a knee jerk reaction and following a harmful process. They have already destroyed my life* and potentially will ruin another two lives my dd and her dad if I let them go ahead with their wishes.

My dd thinks the world of her dad and he thinks the same of her. I fully understand that the police and SS have to react quickly to protect children from abusive adults and I totally support that but I am confused and stressed by their behaviour in relation to our situation and the lack of evidence to support their behaviour

Apparently I am a cited as a Prosecution witness on my dd's dad's bail conditions (Granddad told me) None of my official visitors have mentioned this - Im not sure how I could be a witness

So I dont know who to turn to - dont know anyone who has been in this position. Can anyone offer any advice please?
Last edited by Lost on Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

Minnie
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Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:02 am

Re: Social Services & Police pressure

Post by Minnie » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:47 am

I don't know if I can help,be honest with children's services. My circumstances are slightly different than yours. It started with the children's father,2 assessments were carried out. Nothing was explained to me at that stage except that 2 assessments would be carried out and timescales. For 8 and half weeks,I wasn't involved except as children's mother. An incident took place in my home which resulted in my children taken into care under section 20 (voluntary arrangement), I was told it was for a short time and that my mum could look after them.
My advice is don't sign anything(you appear not to be) without legal advice. I wished to God I hadn't. I'm 11 weeks into what was supposed to 5 days process. The assessment has finished after 10 weeks and children's services are issuing care proceedings. One of the concerns was failing to protect my children from Domestic abuse and not recognising the importance of this. My ex partner has not lived with us for last 3 and half years.

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: Social Services & Police pressure

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:52 pm

Dear Lost

Welcome to the Parents’ Discussion Forum.

My name is Suzie and I am an Adviser at Family Rights Group.

I am sorry that you feel so stressed and worried about the situation you find yourself in having been told about the arrest of your daughter’s father.

It must be difficult for you to take in the actions of the police and children services about this matter. The police will be trying to gather evidence to see whether any charges can be brought against your child’s father. Children Services will be concerned about making sure that she is safeguard and not placed at risk. This is why you have been asked not to allow contact because of the nature of the charge against her father.

Whilst you may find it difficult to believe and want to have more information about what evidence the police has against him, you are unlikely to be given full information whilst investigations are being carried out as the police would not want anything to affect the work they are carrying out. Similarly, Children Services will be looking to the criminal investigation to help them in the procedures that they might need to decide upon, that is whether they should assess your daughter as a child in need or child protection enquiries. The evidence gathering process is likely to be long and time consuming.

Although you have been told no contact at all at the moment, your daughter has a right to see her father and Children Services may decide that supervised contact can take place. They may not agree to you supervising contact at the moment because you do not believe the allegations. Children Services may be concerned about your ability to protect
.
At the moment, it is early days and I can understand that you feel overwhelmed by the process, especially as you have never had involvement with the police or children services. The police and other professionals have a duty to make a referral to children services where they believe a child may be at risk of harm. I know that at the moment you do not think this is the case as there is in your view a lack of evidence.
I would, however, advise that you cooperate fully with Children Services and keep an open mind about the allegations against your daughter’s father. You can only be sure of what another person do if you with them, children Services will need to know that you are putting your daughter first. It might seem to you now that the police and Children Services are having a ‘knee jerk’ reaction but rather than it being a box ticking exercise there are procedures the police have to follow and Children Services have to do the same.

As you have had no previous involvement with Children Services I am including a copy of our advice sheet which gives an introduction to children services. Depending on how the investigation goes Children Services is likely to consider child protection enquiries and a copy of our advice sheet on this in here for your information.

Hopefully, once the police concludes the investigation, the outcome will be as you hope, that your daughter’s father has done nothing wrong. However, you should be mindful that it may not and think about this possibility also.

Regarding the suggestion that you are a prosecution witness, I am not sure how this would have been decided and perhaps it is only a supposition at the moment. You would need to give a statement to the police and you do not say you have done so.

I suggest that you wait and see how things progress and adhere to the agreement that you will not allow contact at the moment. As stated above, this is likely to be revisited by Children Services in due course.

If you wish to speak to an Adviser, do telephone our free advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open Monday to Friday from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m.
I hope you will find this of assistance.

Best wishes

Suzie

Lost
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:58 pm

Re: Social Services & Police pressure

Post by Lost » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:31 am

Thanks Minnie and Suzie for your advice/posts.

Social Services came again last night as arranged; apart from chatting to me about my life and talking to my DD and having a look at my DD's bedroom she told me that a section 47 assessment would be held on Feb 4th - where the arresting police force would share the evidence with SS and then SS would then assess if my DD is a child at risk or a child in need of protection. She explained what both meant. She also said that if I were to say right now that I wanted nothing more to do with the dad and would never see or speak to him again this would all go away. I replied that I cant make that statement until someone confirms to me they have proof of the allegations. I did make it very clear that I have started to put in place child care arrangements for when I return to work so that life can return to as near normal as possible as quickly as possible (Before all this I would either drop her off at her dads before school or collect her from dad's after school - dependent on what time either of us needed to be at work)

During the visit I told the SS lady that my DD had told me she had tried to contact her dad via google hangouts about a computer issue (Minecraft) but he hadnt replied and was it something to do with the police? - I replied to my DD that she knew dad was working away, however, there was no wifi where he was but he had rang said he loved her and said he would visit her when he could and sort out any IT issues:- DD seemed to believe me.

The SS lady said she was pleased with the way I managed this however, no need to worry as her dad wouldnt have got the message anyway as he wouldnt be allowed to use any IT equipment. I advised her that his father had told me he was back at work (which means using IT equipment) so my understanding was that restriction was not part of his conditions of bail. The SS was surprised and said that is very in these circumstances, but as they had no information from the police couldnt comment further. She said this was a strange case as usually they would have information off the police but as the arresting force is hundreds of miles away the information has not been provided but would be on Feb 4th when the assessment would take place.

The SS worker also said that at this meeting she would try to find out why I am a CPS witness and what that means to me and would ask the arresting officer what he meant when he told me that he might look into me, when I rang him.

I am very frightened that they will take my DD off me as a Child at Risk because I'm not convinced she believes me in that I would adhere to their conditons- I have cooperated fully and been open and honest at all times - they have no reason to doubt me other than at this stage I cannot judge a person with the amount of information we all have.

I have left the SS lady a message to call me as she is wfh today - I just want to tell her again that I will genuinely and sincerely adhere to whatever restrictions they stipulate to ensure my DD stays with me.

I have always tried to protect my DD - she is everything to me, I would give my life to save hers; I love her dearly. If it was a choice between either of us never seeing/speaking to her dad again or SS take my DD away from me I would most definitely choose never both of us speaking to her dad again.

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: Social Services & Police pressure

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Thu Jan 28, 2016 1:32 pm

Dear Lost

Thank you for your helpful updated post.

Given the circumstances you find yourself in, it is evident you are doing everything in your power to demonstrate your ability to prioritise your child's needs at this time. These factors will be taken into account on 4th Feb. It is important that you continue to liaise closely with the Local Authority and inform them about any changes to your family circumstances in the meantime.

Best Wishes

Suzie

Lost
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:58 pm

Re: Social Services & Police pressure

Post by Lost » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:31 am

Thanks Suzie

I've got a few things mixed up: Ive amended the 4th paragraph in my original post. The other misunderstanding is: I spoke to the SW on Wed afternoon it's a strategy meeting on Feb 4th, the assessment happens after that.
-----------------
On Wed I also spoke to a relative who works for SS in a neighbouring borough. She helped reduce the immense fear and panic I was feeling - generated from the current situation and heightened after the conversation with the SW on Tue.

I went back to my DD's school to meet with the Head, the Deputy and the class teacher to update them re. SS would be back in touch in the near future no doubt because I had signed a form agreeing to the SS contacting various bodies to discuss me.

School have been very supportive, plus the Head has huge experience of SS and the court system. The Head, same as my relative reassured me that my case shouldn't reach a section 47, however it all depends on evidence (which the police should have shared by now but havent) and the SW's subsequent assessment of evidence, me and the situation. Head and relative both let me know about a whole bunch of other factors - which the SW did not tell me about so whilst the future is still unknown the possibilities are slightly less frightening and it's calmed me a little.

On the way to school this morning, out of nowhere, my DD said she misses her dad so very much - broke my heart. I told her he loves her very much and would visit her as soon as could.

I still feel that SS are still sublimely trying to make me write her dad off and that I am being punished for not doing that. I feel they have no regard for my religious beliefs and upbringing - compassion, empathy, sincerity, treating others as you would like to be treated. In a nutshell I still dont think Social Services really care about people - they only care about appearing to be doing the correct thing as per a process and hitting OLA's

I'll post again when I have further information

Thanks again

Lost
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:58 pm

Re: Social Services & Police pressure

Post by Lost » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:46 pm

SS worker called this afternoon just after collecting my DD from school. The Strategy meeting had been held today, still no further information from the arresting force and it was going to a section 47. She is calling school tomorrow (Fri) to arrange good touch bad touch for Mon.

I dont want this to happen is there anything I can do about it? -

As there's still no further information on why they arrested him on suspicion of having illegal images on his pc. (Which they didnt collect until some time after he was arrested), he hasnt been charged and is working with IT equipment. Why is this conversation warranted at this stage?

Help, please

Thanks

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Social Services & Police pressure

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Fri Feb 05, 2016 5:33 pm

Dear Lost,

Sorry I did not respond earlier-I can see you need to make a decision soon.
As the matter is at a child protection level and may go to a child protection conference, it is important that you can show you are putting your childs needs first and that you can take on board what a professional is saying and that you are cooperating with children services. My advice would be to cooperate with this intervention. If you didn’t, it might become part of the child protection plan anyway. Then you may have to agree to this.
However, beforehand you could discuss exactly what the intervention will involve. It should put your mind at rest.

Best wishes,

Suzie

Lost
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:58 pm

Re: Social Services & Police pressure

Post by Lost » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:25 am

I asked SS to rewrite the Agreement to stop DD having contact with her dad and I would sign it. Was advised to do this by a solicitor.

SS had the conversation with my DD. They told me they have no concerns about her being harmed or being at risk of harm. DD made the connection with not seeing dad whilst the SS was talking to her. SS now want me to tell my DD: "The police think Daddy may have done something naughty so you cant see him until it's resolved" or words to that effect
Core Group Conference will be held soon.
Still no further evidence from the arresting police force.

It doesn't matter what any support site, solicitor or official tells you - Parents do not have any say - the governance currently in place to protect Parents rights is ineffective lip service the SS can, and do whatever they want. 2 Social Workers now from different boroughs do not understand at all why this case has been run the way it has, why it became a section 47 or why my DD is still considered a child in need of protection.

I have written to my MP asking how to contact appropriate channels to try to get a Process Improvement kick started re. irreparable damage to the lives of immediate family to the child considered to be Child at Riskj/Child in Need of Protection. We have all suffered, none of us are under investigation

dsm10
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:27 pm

Re: Social Services & Police pressure

Post by dsm10 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:22 am

Hi lost
So sorry to hear another poor innocent mother going through exactly the same as me. Only variations are it is my husband being investigated for downloading inappropriate child images. We where subjected to a dawn raid on the 5th of January my husband arrested all in front of our 2 children!! Our children are 5 & 7 I also have 2 children from a previous marriage, aged 20 & 22! And my husband has a 10 year old also!
I like you trust and believe my husband so feel persecuted for this. My husband is not allowed to reside at the family home and is currently allowed 2 hours supervised access each evening Monday to Friday, weekends are a free reign?? I am not allowed to supervise contact as SS witnessed me falling asleep after they mentally and emotionally tortured me during a 2 hour grilling trying to convince me my husband is guilty! I am disabled, so exhausted now all the care of the children falls to me, my husband has leukaemia diagnosed 6 months ago.. We always worked as a team but now I have found an I in team!!
We where taken to child protection conference on the 9th February and subsequently our children placed on a child protection plan I am in my 40's and during my 22 years being a Mum I have NEVER had my parenting questioned until now!! I am completely devastated for our children as they idolise their Daddy and don't understand why he gone! We also don't have a large immediate family so we struggle for supervision and help for me! All this they doing it for kids safety I understand but have to wonder which out of these evils will be the least detrimental to our kids wellbeing??? As even the police do not think our children are being abused it was disclosed at the meeting on Tuesday.. I know what I think??
Good luck to you and your daughter. May justice prevail and give us our lives back!

Best wishes
DSM 10 XX

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