Human Rights and Children's Services

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Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by newdad » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:11 pm

I have some questions regarding the legality of the way Children's Services operate. It seems like every other day there is another story in the press detailing another case of abuse and wrongdoing by the state in it's application of the Children Act 1989.

My understanding is that this issue is a fairly widely recognised problem with harsh criticisms coming from across the political spectrum. How is it that this issue has been allowed to grow to the extent it has. More and more children are being removed from their parents for what appear to be very minor and often bizarre reasons.

How is it possible that this can go on. I thought there were protections against such unwarranted intrusions into ones private and family life. I appreciate that in certain circumstances children must be protected and this may have to result in their removal from their homes but it seem like in so many cases children are often taken for no sound reasons.

Many children are taken merely for being at risk of harm and very often that harm is very unclear and relies upon predictions of the future. If this is true then it would have to be agreed that either the Children Act is not consistent with Human Rights law or there is a serious misapplication of the law taking place. Either way fundamental human rights are being abused on a massive scale.

I am also concerned about the level of intrusion into ones history and private life that seems to be justified by the Children Act. Is it really appropriate that people should be forced to answer to minor criminal convictions or entries in their medical records from decades ago. This seems like a serious intrusion into peoples private lives that cannot be justified by the Children Act. I understand that assessments must take place but to drag things up from peoples lives from over twenty years that have absolutely no bearing on the question of whether someone is going to abuse or neglect their children seems odd and cannot really be legal or justified.

How is it possible that this can take place in this day and age and in a country such as the UK. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable on these matters can explain this to me as I am quite concerned that this can go on.

Thank you,

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Re: Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by ZigZag » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:35 pm

Hi Newdad,

You and I have the same concerns. I will be interested to know what replies come through. It seems that CYPS can stomp around on parents (seems to be Fathers though) after unfounded and false allegations.


Good luck.

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Re: Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by braveheart » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:11 pm

my answer to that is they dig up dirt on you to use against you in their own cases to have more 'evidence' as they say that you are incapable of looking after your child or you are at risk to your child because of your past or because when you were a child your parents chastised you or you had a behaviour problem as a teenager etc (just examples) but they can only get this information if you let them if they ask you to sign documents allowing them to get copies of your medical records and you do then you are buggered basically because then they have your permission and they will be allowed to access it.. If you say no then they will use that too and say you are hiding things from them which they will use against you also so its a no win situation, the same if they were to ask you personal questions about your past and you don't tell them then again they will say you are not cooperating and or you are trying to hide something from them which then means they will say that you are probably at risk of harming your children in the future, they are very crafty and sly and always find a way to make you feel you are in the wrong when in fact you are in your every right as a human to withhold any information from them if you don't want them to access medical records they can't without your permission and if they do then it is a breech of confidentiality and you can sue your GP Hospital etc for breaking confidentiality laws.

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Re: Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by Basil » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:36 pm

As for medial records, my gp discussed my health with cs etc at a stratagy meeting before cpconference. I also thought this was not allowed but it happened my child was taken into care under section 20 for six months now 12 months hes still there

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:08 pm

Hi Basil

Children’s Services have a legal duty to look into a child's situation if they have information that a child may be at risk of significant harm. This is called a child protection enquiry or investigation. Sometimes it is called a “Section 47” after the section of the Children Act 1989 which sets out this duty.

For more information see: advice sheet 9: Child protection procedures.

With regards to your human rights, you are correct in thinking that a person's medical information should normally only be shared with your consent, but not if the Local Authority are completing their enquiries and need to assess or consider taking action in order to keep a child safe. You may find it useful to refer to our access to records advice sheet.

I hope this helps.

Best Wishes


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Re: Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by Basil » Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:52 pm

thank you suzie for advice, but what rights have a parent got when at a cpc its not to keep child safe but the parent? and you loose your child cause cs think you may get hurt by child. when you have asked cs for help for 9 years and they loughted then, and when i threatened them with papers this is what happened. it stinks

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Re: Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by ange301126 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:50 am

dear basil,as suzie says the CS have a duty to look into a situation when they receive information that children are at risk.
They have a duty to make a FAIR assessment and to hand what they find to decision-making bodies. The Public are entitled to expect that investigations are made and assessments made following all legal guidelines and their own internal guidelines with INTEGRITY in order that they are fair and impartial..
Often they do not follow procedure and rules and lack integrity.
As regards Police records.If you don't agree to reveal your police record then if they go to litigation the court will order you to do so.So you may as well cooperate by agreeing straight away,I suppose. However,the rules say that if you agree to reveal your Police record then the Social Workers must not hold it against you in a case UNLESS it specifically relates to child abuse,child neglect etc.etc. Theft,a.b.h, or traffic offences should not be used against you.
They often ignore the rules and ride roughshod over your human rights in this respect.

Nowadays, as Suzie says the CS have access to medical records automatically ,I believe as they are part of the system. However,in fairness, the rules say that they are only for the perusal of medically qualified personnel within the system not by a social worker or a guardian who aren't qualified to understand them. This does not stop them though and they usually cast their nets through your records without permission and pick out any negatives they can.
So once again your human rights are abused.Often a parents solicitor will sit by and watch these breeches of the rules without any protest.

Legal Action
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Re: Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by Legal Action » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:44 am

I know this is an old query, and the OP is very unlikely to read my reply.

The extent to which Social Services dig historic dirt up about parents, I can't say. But, you will see, if you research court criticisms, that in some cases, Social Services has been criticised in Family Court for embellishing records, in order to make their case stronger.

As far as I can tell, it is the individual parent who must fight the legal case, (with a lawyer, if you can afford one.) What I've seen so far, about the ICO,
is that, it's very willing to listen. But, its stance is, Social Services has the right to do anything it wants....unless you can prove otherwise

That's how I see Britain:

Social Services has the right to do anything it wants, unless you have the skills to quote chapter and verse about why not.

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Re: Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by PerfectlySafeDad » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:34 am

'Social Services has the right to do anything it wants, unless you have the skills to quote chapter and verse about why not.'
That, unfortunately, appears to be absolutely correct. My experience of social services (now Children's Services) involvement in my family, specifically my rights to a life as a Dad, has completely altered my perception of the country I have grown up in. I always assumed Britain to be benevolent - the 'good guys' - and so many war films, spy films, , thrillers etc take this as read. However, The CS is undoubtedly a wing of society that can act almost with impunity (due to the fragile nature of most of its case subjects, and issues of embedded social panic towards sex offences which affords protection for the CS's behaviour. It is almost impossible to call them to account for mistakes of disrupting where NOT needed, so they pull the net as tightly as they like - and consequences for many families' human rights are acute. They are able to 'play it safe' in all cases, and justify 'cause for concern' at ludicrously low thresholds, maximizing any ammunition they have against an allegedly unsafe parent. The austerity situation, with resultant loss of contact centres and competent staff, huge caseloads, exacerbate draconianism. This is because the CS in many instances then hold cases in limbo whilst assessments or DBR checks are awaited - which 'have to be done (the tyranny of bureaucracy as a phenomenon in itself) - or through a simple piece of phone 'advice' which the subject family knows all too well holds a certain threat of protracted and delayed action against them. Often CS will attempt to close a case with a mere verbal 'no contact' warning, and many a fearful spouse will adhere to it. People are ground down as opposed to supported, even where 'support' is ostensibly the benign intent. The word has, however, increasingly lost its meaning and is almost indistinguishable from Investigation because lack of infrastructure coupled with an increasingly dogmatic stance on 'risk' do not permit a distinction between support and suspicion.
I believe many people would be shocked if shown a fly-on-the-wall view of the daily workings of a Local Authority child protection 'team' (the word hardly fits); a handful of motley characters, many with broken backgrounds or fringe sexuality (or utter lack of it) themselves, in a shambolic and hectic office imparting decisions by the hour which have painful if not desperate consequences for somebody out there. Tracing suicides to their decisions would be almost impossible, and easily attributable to 'other' factors, yet the causality is very real and more common than our decadent national leadership will dare to suggest.
Tyranny emerges from chaos and austerity, not necessarily evil intent, although thick-skinned (callousness being a subtle progression on that) characters thrive best in such a working environment. The most sensitive social workers quit the profession in droves, resulting in the biggest hard-hearted swines at the top.
Of course it's easy to say "well, if you don't break any law, you won't come to the attention of the authorities" (any of the world's tyrannies could probably claim that), but do not be do sure, not by any means. You've avoided a landmine, that's all - 1 in 20 families are a concern, and the ratio will get bigger. If you do do anything wrong, God help you, because the family life Gestapo are low on forgiveness or trust, they can afford to be.

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Re: Human Rights and Children's Services

Post by Kami2018 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:00 am

Broken record still blaming everyone else

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