Recording meetings

[Beanie]

Hi

I was looking for some advice on digitally recording the meetings I have with children's social services.

My family and I have been involved with children's social services since the end of May 2016, and I am finding the whole process extremely frustrating and undermining. I am constantly accused of 'being difficult to engage' and 'not co-operating and complying', despite following all their advice. My main issue is that I have refused to believe my husband (the children's step dad) is capable of allegations that have been made against him, and so I am being accused of not safeguarding our daughter (who will be 14 in December) and son (who will be 18 in January) despite the fact that they have made no disclosures and have shown no sign of abuse over the nearly 10 years my husband and I have been together. They love their step dad and want him back in the family home.

I have attended many meetings over the last few months (we are now working in the pre-proceedings arena for our daughter and Child in Need for our son) but have never received or agreed any minutes. It is often claimed that I have been told things, or things have been said, that I do not recall. Because of this, at the last core group meeting, I requested permission to digitally record the meeting, so I had some point of reference at a later date. I assured the allocated social worker that the recording was for my own personal use, and if I were to share it with my solicitor, I would only use the whole recording and not edit it. I also said I would not share it on any social media site. All this advice came from 'The Transparency Project'.

The social worker sought legal advice from the Local Authority solicitor, after telling me she 'didn't feel comfortable' with the idea of recording the meeting, and was told that I could only record it if she gave consent, which she '100% did not'. If she is being open and honest with me, as is claimed all the time at these meetings, I do not understand why she feels so uncomfortable with them being recorded.

She said she would given me a copy of the minutes from the meeting and when I pointed out that I had been told that at every meeting I had attended, but had never received any, she promised to get all available minutes to me the following day. I was then given minutes for the Initial Child Protection Conference and the 2 subsequent core group meetings, but no others. I have since emailed and asked her for all the minutes for all the meeting I have attended. However, on reading through the minutes, I do not feel they are unbiased or neutral, and there are parts I do not agree with; not to mention the horrendous spelling and grammar errors!

Anyway - the main reason for this 'discussion' was to ask where do I stand with wanting to digitally record a meeting which the social worker says I can't do? It's just so frustrating!

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear Beanie,

Welcome to the Parents Forum.

I can see how frustrated you are about not receiving minutes of meetings when you are supposed to, as well as your concern that they do not reflect accurately what was discussed.
You wonder whether you could record the meeting even though the social worker does not agree.
Children services are correct to say that you would need the social workers consent to record the meeting.

Could you challenge her position? Yes, you could ask that the decision to be reviewed. Here is some information about attending meetings, recording and complaints.

You are in the pre proceedings process for your daughter. This is last chance for care proceedings to be avoided. I hope that you can avoid them.

During care proceedings, the court will be finding out whether your daughter has suffered significant harm or is a risk of that harm. If the threshold of harm is met, the court will then deal with the question about where will your daughter live. Is it safe for her to live with you? if not, can she live with her father or connected people such as grandparents other family or friends?
Or if there is no suitable family member or friend, then the court will consider foster care or a childrens' home.

Are you clear about what you need to do to work with children servicers? There seems to be some doubt. You say you are accused of not cooperating and being difficult to engage. Can you address this? Ask the social worker to be more specific. Or ask your solicitor about what you need to do.

Have a look at our advice sheet about care proceedings which details what should happen in the pre- proceedings process. it also gives you advice about working with your solicitor-how to gert the best out of your legal team.

You say that you cannot believe the allegations that have been made against your partner. Do you know at what stage the police investigation has reached?

Children services have a legal duty to protect children. They cannot allow your daughter to be put at a potential risk of harm. So they have to assume your partner could be guilty, to protect your daughter, until the assessment assures them that he is not risky.

Even if your partner was found not guilty or the crown prosecution services did not pursue a case in the criminal court, children services may still assess your partner as being risky to your daughter as well as other children. Children services only need to show on the balance of probability (ie 55% he did the offence against 45% he didn’t).
Why don’t you ask for more information about the allegations against your exe? Were you present in the room when the alleged incident was supposed to have taken place?

Who is assessing your partner? When will his assessment be completed? Until then, while you are at the last stage before care proceedings, I advise you to do everything you can to work with children services.

If you need further advice, please post again or you could discuss things in confidence with an adviser by calling 0808 801 0366.

Best wishes,

Suzie

[Beanie]

Thanks for that information.

Our case is rather an unusual one - a 19 year old has accused my husband of sexually touching her at work and that case is going to crown court in March, despite there being no witnesses, and, in fact, the people the police have spoken to (work colleagues that the alleged victim named) have said they do not believe it to have happened.

In May, a friend of my mother-in-law's daughter said that my husband had abused her when they were young (20 years ago) - she was 5 and he was 12 - for 3 years. The allegations are serious. However, the police have since dropped this case so social services are now investigating, like you say, using the balance of probability. Once gain, there are no witnesses and nothing to corroborate her story; in fact, we have plenty of witnesses to say the opposite but the police never needed any of that information to come to their conclusion.

My daughter and son have never made any disclosures, and, as a professional in education myself, I feel I would have seen any signs of abuse - even with hindsight, there were, and are, none at all. They are both begging for their step dad to come home and have said he hasn't done anything to them; but social services refuse to hear, saying I have created an atmosphere not conducive to disclosure. All our family and friends are standing by us, as none of them can believe the allegations or what is happening with social services - the people they are describing are not me or my husband!

I feel my biggest problem is that I have questioned their decisions from the start and have assertively asked for proper answers to the questions I ask, and feel I have not received this. At every assessment or meeting we go to, they have 'thought' of something else I am doing wrong - undermining the social worker, my husband modelling inappropriate behaviours, the children thinking I won't believe them...if they knew me, my family and the relationship we have, they would know this to be so far from the truth it hurts! My solicitor has said the only way I can convince them that I am safe guarding my children would be to end my relationship with my husband, and he said that I'd probably have to divorce him to prove it! Obviously I am not willing to do this...which brings me back to square one. Unfortunately, I had a very unsuccessful phone call with the team manager during the first 2 weeks of this happening, when I was still quite emotionally charged, and didn't understand the full consequences of standing by my husband. She accused me of shouting at her and being abusive, which I disagreed with, saying I was assertive and emotional, and did raise my voice but only because she kept talking over me and ignoring my questions. I did not shout and I certainly was not abusive. I feel as though this woman has taken this all personally and is not behaving in a professional way. I make sure I have a witness for every phone call and at every meeting since that day.

I will look at the 2 pieces of advice you have linked in for me. Thanks once again for your help.

[321321]

I would go ahead and do it anyway, just don't tell her. You won't be punished for recording her. If she doesn't want to be recorded she has something to hide and you could really catch her out.

[Har1Her1]

Hello,

I really understand your frustration. I have had very similar evaluations made by members of Children's Social Care about my 'lack of engagement' with agencies and I have even been accused of trying to 'sabotage' plans for my eldest son's placement. In fact, I have wasted a significant amount of time in some meetings asking representatives from Children's Social Care to give me one example of when I have no engaged or one example of when I put my needs before my children's and so on. On no occasion has a substantial concrete example been given. In my opinion, some of the phrases used in CSC reports are almost cliches. The fact that the very same phrases that are used about you, have been used about me in a completely unrelated case, suggests that reports can contain a great deal of terminology from assessment criteria that is not evidenced based.

However, my case is rather different from yours. 'Abuse' did take place - between two brothers with additional needs. If the 'case' was handled properly/differently, support and intervention would have focused on helping us to cope as a family in which three members have additional needs an behaviour that challenges. This could have meant one or other member of the family found alternative accommodation, but it would not have resulted in the wholesale demolition of our family unit and of ourselves as individuals with labels of 'abuser' 'abused' 'unco-operative' 'inadequate'and so on. The irony in our case is that even under Child Protection Plans, the local authority are failing to meet our children's needs.

I really hope, as Suzie states (above) that your daughter stays out of the system. My son is trying to enter the system, but, even as a homeless and vulnerable young man (he is lodging at a CAMHS unit), no placement has been found and arguments are still going on about which department may fund what service. My youngest is just left. Developmental work which was supposed to be crucial for him with respect to his behaviour, never took place. Work on 'relationships' which was supposed to be fundamental to help us as a 'single parent' unit never took place.

I suppose what I should say (and I am bitter, so I ramble a lot about my own situation and I apologise for that) is that in my opinion, once a case falls under 'Child Protection' interpretations are made under a very narrow framework. A label of 'abuse' (or alleged abuse) leads to labels of 'abuser' and interpretations of 'failure to protect' 'denial' 'minimizing' and so on. We (family members) become characters in the script for a 'dysfunctional' family and the more we protest the more 'troublesome' or 'hostile' we are cast.

Yet, we must protest and we must fight for our families and our children and for our own sense of self. The Child Protection Service is failing families where there are complex needs or where, as in your case, abuse has not been proved.

Incidentally, with respect to recording meetings. I have just forwarded a series of e-mails which proved I contacted and corresponded with various agencies about my eldest son's education, because it was alleged that I 'set him up to fail' by telling no-one about his additional needs. If I had conducted the correspondence via telephone, there would have been no record of my actions.