Today I accompanied my daughter to her first Solicitors' appointment.
Her daughter had been forcibly taken from home and we were advised it was a 'section 20' order.
Both my daughter and I have been ignored at every turn by SS and her Special Needs school, she is 16 with mild learning problems.
SS have not given us any information, refusing to interact with either of us. We could not find out the problems, I was asked if I could have my granddaughter to live with me, was told absolutely not, no reason given. Could she live with her sister - no. For the last 3/4 weeks she has consistently been unhappy and has absconded a number of times, says she is now being locked in the home when no one else at home.
She has been manhandled by the police and bears bruises and scratches, and swollen wrists from handcuffs - she came to me, and I photographed these injuries, I was threatened by Police that I had to return her to her foster home which I did in a timely manner.
Her crime, reporting that she had been 'interfered with' at school, no previous problems at all.
When her SW took her to the hospital, the doctor refused to treat her as he said the SW did not have Parental rights. No sure how he knew that!
As stated above we finally got to our appointment day with Solicitor and he informs us that the Section 20 order DID NOT EXIST my daughter still had parental rights, and all that had been said and done by SS and Police etc. was illegal. Can we find her and take her home - yes.
We returned to my daughters' house, and started trying to locate her. A couple of hours later a letter was hand delivery to my daughter and her solicitor, telling awful lies, refusing to disclose where she was, and said they were taking the matter to Court.
Unfortunately Solicitor had left for the day.
Has and can this have really happened , Solicitor is a good one with many dealing with local SS and appears to know his stuff and is prepared to fight in Court. To our knowledge the hospital will only treat her if the person who has parental rights is present, and this is her mother and her daughter is being detained by SS - Police are only involved when she runs away, no crime has been commited by my granddaughter.
Shocking revelations
Re: Shocking revelations
Hi
Social services are a law unto themselves,it appears they can do what they want and with no to answer to. I signed section 20,one of the worse decisions I made. The knock on effects have been horrendous. The procedure failings have been horrendous with my daughters. Ss issued care proceedings in January, I had done everything that had been asked of me and wasn't enough. The Family court system is an absolutely nightmare, my girls have just been given to their domestically abusive father who has taken little interest in them in the last four years. This isn't what they want and definitely isn't there best interests. The only reason I don't have them is that I told the social worker that my daughter has behavioural problems and I felt that she was on the autistic spectrum. I was told I had labelled her special needs and I was making excuses for my bad parenting. She has gone on to be diagnosed with 3 different behaviour problems. I have been seen not to manage my daughter's behaviour and lack insight into what the professionals(the social worker) are saying.
I'm not understanding why they are taking you court, you solicitor is going to need fight and hard. The Family court is full of lies and false information. Due to been closed court,this is mostly unknown to people who have not been to family court.
Hope you get this sorted without going to court
Social services are a law unto themselves,it appears they can do what they want and with no to answer to. I signed section 20,one of the worse decisions I made. The knock on effects have been horrendous. The procedure failings have been horrendous with my daughters. Ss issued care proceedings in January, I had done everything that had been asked of me and wasn't enough. The Family court system is an absolutely nightmare, my girls have just been given to their domestically abusive father who has taken little interest in them in the last four years. This isn't what they want and definitely isn't there best interests. The only reason I don't have them is that I told the social worker that my daughter has behavioural problems and I felt that she was on the autistic spectrum. I was told I had labelled her special needs and I was making excuses for my bad parenting. She has gone on to be diagnosed with 3 different behaviour problems. I have been seen not to manage my daughter's behaviour and lack insight into what the professionals(the social worker) are saying.
I'm not understanding why they are taking you court, you solicitor is going to need fight and hard. The Family court is full of lies and false information. Due to been closed court,this is mostly unknown to people who have not been to family court.
Hope you get this sorted without going to court
Re: Shocking revelations
I'm sure Suzie will be along shortly, but in my research on all of this an s20 is voluntary and a person with parental responsibility can remove a child and take them home at any time. So even if you signed an s20 agreement you retain parental responsibility and can get your daughter. I got a bit confused reading your post regarding daughter and granddaughter. Have both been taken? How long has the foster placement been in place and why? Wishing you loads of luck.
Re: Shocking revelations
Thanks for replies - To Answer:
My daughter has learning problems and has 6 children by the same father oldest 23, youngest 16. Absolutely no problems with parenting. All except the eldest still live at home. The youngest girl is my granddaughter and this is the girl they have (falsely) taken into care.
Reason they offered was that her Special school had concerns because she had told them she had run away from home twice (because she wanted an expensive item that could not be bought 'on the spot') and my daughter had not reported her missing to the Police - the reason being, within one hour she turned up at her older sisters' home less than 5 miles away (she has a bus pass). By next morning on arriving at school she carried on as usual, forgetting what had happened so not 'continuing' to talk about running away from home, and school contact SS and from then on it appears every word any of us said, and any move any of us made was being watched and twisted for form a 'pattern of insufficient parenting skills by my daughter.
Only granddaughter taken into care - mother is being denied any contact and information is not forthcoming. SS have totally 'clammed' up over the 5/6 weeks this has been happening.
I am known to the school so decided to visit them in person with my daughter to get some information. We waited at the school door in complete view, and after a few minutes the door was opened and we were ushered inside to an office, all doors were closed and guarded from inside the room. We were then told SS were on the 'phone and we were both me and my daughter with a barrage of official verbal warning concerning contacting my granddaughter ever again! We never had a chance to explain why we were there, it was 'assumed' we were going to take my granddaughter away!!
We were finally allowed to leave and were escorted off the premises in front of children, parents and teachers. I sent an email to the school to ask why they had done this to us but they had blocked my e-mail.
My daughter has learning problems and has 6 children by the same father oldest 23, youngest 16. Absolutely no problems with parenting. All except the eldest still live at home. The youngest girl is my granddaughter and this is the girl they have (falsely) taken into care.
Reason they offered was that her Special school had concerns because she had told them she had run away from home twice (because she wanted an expensive item that could not be bought 'on the spot') and my daughter had not reported her missing to the Police - the reason being, within one hour she turned up at her older sisters' home less than 5 miles away (she has a bus pass). By next morning on arriving at school she carried on as usual, forgetting what had happened so not 'continuing' to talk about running away from home, and school contact SS and from then on it appears every word any of us said, and any move any of us made was being watched and twisted for form a 'pattern of insufficient parenting skills by my daughter.
Only granddaughter taken into care - mother is being denied any contact and information is not forthcoming. SS have totally 'clammed' up over the 5/6 weeks this has been happening.
I am known to the school so decided to visit them in person with my daughter to get some information. We waited at the school door in complete view, and after a few minutes the door was opened and we were ushered inside to an office, all doors were closed and guarded from inside the room. We were then told SS were on the 'phone and we were both me and my daughter with a barrage of official verbal warning concerning contacting my granddaughter ever again! We never had a chance to explain why we were there, it was 'assumed' we were going to take my granddaughter away!!
We were finally allowed to leave and were escorted off the premises in front of children, parents and teachers. I sent an email to the school to ask why they had done this to us but they had blocked my e-mail.
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4242
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Shocking revelations
Dear amicipat
Thank you for your further updating post. Your heading of shocking revelation seems appropriate having read the content of your post.
It is really good that you have a solicitor whom you and your daughter appear to trust acting on her behalf.
You say your granddaughter was forcibly removed from her home, this is not the way a s.20 conset works. It should be that after having a discussion with a parent and explaining the nature of the consent a parent would sign and a child can then be placed as a looked after child in accommodation provided by children services. They are required to consider a child being with family and friends carers if child cannot be with a parent, before stranger foster care.
The only circumstances where can child can be removed without a parent's or person with parental responsibility consent is if the child is considered to be at immediate risk of harm. In such circumstances, the police can remove a child for up to 72 hrs. After this, a s.20 consent has to be obtained by children services for child to remain away from home, or they have to obtain a court order.
You say your granddaughter made an allegation the she was inappropriately touched at school. This should have been properly investigated by the school. The safeguarding person at the school should refer the matter to the police and children services. Your daughter has parental responsibility and is the only person unless the child’s father also has parental responsibility who can exercise parental responsibility and make decisions about her daughter. Your daughter might wish to consider making a formal complaint at the school.
From you post, it seems that the police have not treated your granddaughter very well bearing in mind the allegations that she has made and as a victim of an alleged crime against her. Your daughter may also wish to formally complain about the way her daughter has been treated. You say you have evidence of injuries your granddaughter suffered and this should be part of her complaint. Her solicitor should be able to advise her whether she should take legal action regarding the injuries.
It is normal procedure for a parent (or person with parental responsibility) to be present when a child is to be examined by a doctor especially if there is to be an intimate examination.
As you daughter has been advised she has parental responsibility for her daughter. She will retain this until she is no longer a child. A mother does not lose parental responsibility unless a child is legally adopted.
I am sure your daughter’s solicitor will be able to advise her about the content of the letter from children services and what her rights are. If they do decide to make an application to the court, your daughter will be represented and the actions of the social worker can be brought to the court’s attention.
Unless the social worker has good reasons (she is at risk of significant harm for example) to say that your daughter cannot know where her child is then she has a right to be informed. As explained in my previous post, you daughter should be told who the independent reviewing officer (IRO) is and give a copy of the care and placement plan for her daughter.
Your granddaughter is entitled to have an advocate who can help her to have her wishes and feelings made known to children services.
The description you have given of how your granddaughter was removed and the subsequent treatment of her mother and extended family members is not good practice and it may be that your daughter wishes to make a formal complaint. Our advice sheet will give more information about how to go about making a complaint. I suggest that she discuss this with her solicitor.
Your daughter’s solicitor can advise her whether she should withdraw her consent to her daughter being accommodated by children services. This is might trigger an application being made to the court, so important to take advice before doing so.
As your daughter now has a solicitor to advise her this is probably the best for her as the solicitor will have all the information about the case and can give more detailed advice on the evidence he receives from children services.
Should you or your daughter wish to speak to an adviser on our free confidential advice line, please do telephone on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m. Monday to Friday.
I hope you find this helpful.
Best wishes
Suzie
Thank you for your further updating post. Your heading of shocking revelation seems appropriate having read the content of your post.
It is really good that you have a solicitor whom you and your daughter appear to trust acting on her behalf.
You say your granddaughter was forcibly removed from her home, this is not the way a s.20 conset works. It should be that after having a discussion with a parent and explaining the nature of the consent a parent would sign and a child can then be placed as a looked after child in accommodation provided by children services. They are required to consider a child being with family and friends carers if child cannot be with a parent, before stranger foster care.
The only circumstances where can child can be removed without a parent's or person with parental responsibility consent is if the child is considered to be at immediate risk of harm. In such circumstances, the police can remove a child for up to 72 hrs. After this, a s.20 consent has to be obtained by children services for child to remain away from home, or they have to obtain a court order.
You say your granddaughter made an allegation the she was inappropriately touched at school. This should have been properly investigated by the school. The safeguarding person at the school should refer the matter to the police and children services. Your daughter has parental responsibility and is the only person unless the child’s father also has parental responsibility who can exercise parental responsibility and make decisions about her daughter. Your daughter might wish to consider making a formal complaint at the school.
From you post, it seems that the police have not treated your granddaughter very well bearing in mind the allegations that she has made and as a victim of an alleged crime against her. Your daughter may also wish to formally complain about the way her daughter has been treated. You say you have evidence of injuries your granddaughter suffered and this should be part of her complaint. Her solicitor should be able to advise her whether she should take legal action regarding the injuries.
It is normal procedure for a parent (or person with parental responsibility) to be present when a child is to be examined by a doctor especially if there is to be an intimate examination.
As you daughter has been advised she has parental responsibility for her daughter. She will retain this until she is no longer a child. A mother does not lose parental responsibility unless a child is legally adopted.
I am sure your daughter’s solicitor will be able to advise her about the content of the letter from children services and what her rights are. If they do decide to make an application to the court, your daughter will be represented and the actions of the social worker can be brought to the court’s attention.
Unless the social worker has good reasons (she is at risk of significant harm for example) to say that your daughter cannot know where her child is then she has a right to be informed. As explained in my previous post, you daughter should be told who the independent reviewing officer (IRO) is and give a copy of the care and placement plan for her daughter.
Your granddaughter is entitled to have an advocate who can help her to have her wishes and feelings made known to children services.
The description you have given of how your granddaughter was removed and the subsequent treatment of her mother and extended family members is not good practice and it may be that your daughter wishes to make a formal complaint. Our advice sheet will give more information about how to go about making a complaint. I suggest that she discuss this with her solicitor.
Your daughter’s solicitor can advise her whether she should withdraw her consent to her daughter being accommodated by children services. This is might trigger an application being made to the court, so important to take advice before doing so.
As your daughter now has a solicitor to advise her this is probably the best for her as the solicitor will have all the information about the case and can give more detailed advice on the evidence he receives from children services.
Should you or your daughter wish to speak to an adviser on our free confidential advice line, please do telephone on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m. Monday to Friday.
I hope you find this helpful.
Best wishes
Suzie
Re: Shocking revelations
Just an add on here. Get a copy of the school's safeguarding policy and see if they followed it in relation to the allegation made by your granddaughter. It certainly doesn't seem so. If not your daughter should also be writing to the head teacher, the chair of the governors and phone the local authority and ask for the name and contact details of the LADO. All schools have a legal duty to notify their LADO of allegations against staff. If they have not done so they are breaking the law.
Re: Shocking revelations
Thank you all so much. We now have a much better understanding. It has been so difficult to believe what was happening, everyone was so 'sure' and convincing that everything they were doing was lawful - that is, of course, when they could be bothered to speak with us at all, much of these actions happened without any contact from SS and it is only now, beginning to unravel all that has been said and the actions that have been taken. Since they had contact from the Solicitor yesterday, my granddaughter has been 'spirited' away, her 'phone is no longer active and she has been hastily removed from the foster home she was at. We cannot find her! We do know she has not 'run away' because I managed to make a call to her phone and she was ok, but scared and did not know what was happening, she had been told she was not to talk with us, and hung up the 'phone and then it now has no service.
Of course, it is now the summer break, so no answer from the school, only a duty manager at SS who cannot comment not knowing the case. Cannot in all honesty call 999, but the non emergency service took details and said they would 'look into it'
I will be following the advice and start to draw up some formal complaints as suggested. Will of course keep this thread updated. Thank you again, any further advice would be welcome still.
Of course, it is now the summer break, so no answer from the school, only a duty manager at SS who cannot comment not knowing the case. Cannot in all honesty call 999, but the non emergency service took details and said they would 'look into it'
I will be following the advice and start to draw up some formal complaints as suggested. Will of course keep this thread updated. Thank you again, any further advice would be welcome still.
Re: Shocking revelations
Hi Amicipat,
A word of caution regarding the LA complaints procedure.
Be as specific as you can and detail everything you wish to complain about at stage 1. If it gets escalated beyond that, any new information you come into contact with can not be added to the complaints as the LA have to have an opportunity to investigate anything 'new'. IF it went to stage 2, an independent officer will almost certainly only look at the issues you have complained about. It's not within his/her brief to 'dig deeper', just investigate the issues you want addressing.
I would speak with your solicitor about Judicial reviews. From what I'm aware, there are time limits involved and I'm not 100% sure, you may need permission in some instances from the LA.
Good luck, and I look forward to hearing your progress.
A word of caution regarding the LA complaints procedure.
Be as specific as you can and detail everything you wish to complain about at stage 1. If it gets escalated beyond that, any new information you come into contact with can not be added to the complaints as the LA have to have an opportunity to investigate anything 'new'. IF it went to stage 2, an independent officer will almost certainly only look at the issues you have complained about. It's not within his/her brief to 'dig deeper', just investigate the issues you want addressing.
I would speak with your solicitor about Judicial reviews. From what I'm aware, there are time limits involved and I'm not 100% sure, you may need permission in some instances from the LA.
Good luck, and I look forward to hearing your progress.
I am a parent. My responses are not from any formal training background but from my own experiences, my own research and my own point of view.
Re: Shocking revelations
The referral to the lado is legally seperate to complaints. Anyone can refer if they have concerns or allegations against a professional.
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