Out of control teenager

zena_p
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Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:34 pm

Re: Out of control teenager

Post by zena_p » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:39 pm

Yes I too have had SS involved due to risk to his younger sister. The problem is that they keep pointing me back to the traditional autism strategies and I have to go through everything again...Its exhausting trying to prove you are not making it all up!

I have one other suggestion I forgot to mention. One post that stuck out for me on the forum I mentioned, was actually from a teenager who thought he was this really awful person. He felt hugely relieved when he realised that everything he felt equated to pda. Maybe it would help your kids to understand that their behaviour might be caused by this particular form of autism?

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Out of control teenager

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:07 am

Hello - all, I have trawled through historic posts for the past month looking for a family experience similar to that of my own. To give a little context my middle child was diagnosed with autism at the age of three. His older brother was diagnosed at the age of six with Aspergers. They are 13 and 16 now. 13yo was removed from my care under the category of beyond parental control. I had fought for years to secure support and begged for help. Both boys triggered each other and the behaviour of both become highly volatile/dangerous. I also have a 3yo.

All generic strategies have not worked for my 13yo - Over the years I have been portrayed as an excellent care giver to the polar opposite of this and all extreme behaviours blamed on my parenting ability. My 13yo has been in the care system for over a year now. He is currently in a care home with two other children. His behaviour has deteriorated significantly. I struggle with my own verbal communication so meetings and face to face encounters are a real struggle. I am currently pursuing my own diagnosis. From what I have researched I am most likely on the spectrum and tick majority of boxes for dyspraxia. I have gone through a court process with no reasonable adjustments and little to no understanding of my own communication needs recognised or acknowledged. I am neither use nor ornament at meetings!

I have gone off topic completely :/ after reading various posts and following links I think I've found the missing part of the jigsaw. PDA fits! My problem now - how do I get this across to others? My son will not engage in assessments. His LAC review was on Friday and he could not cope. I could see this. Other people could not - culminating in him coming close to attacking the IRO. I physically intervened and firmly asked for everyone to leave the room. I was able to calm my son. We left together and he stayed in my care until later that day and returned to his care home. We are currently on social worker number 5 in a two year period. I only met her at Fridays meeting. I do not believe information has been efficiently passed from previous SW. Important information is being lost. I am watching my son spiral out of control...

I would be grateful for any advice/suggestions on how to proceed with the currently unrecognised PDA side of things. Thank you.

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Out of control teenager

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:20 pm

Dear Miserylovescompany2

Thank you for your post.

I am sorry that you have been having a difficult time getting support for your son and he is now in the care of the local authority.

As your son has a diagnosis of autism is he not provided with support under an EHC plan? From what you say his needs are not been met. I think it might be helpful if you read our advice sheet Duties on Children’s Services when children are in the care system as if children’s services are not meeting his need. Is our son in a specialist placement which caters for his autism diagnosis?

You say you think his condition may fall into the pathological demand avoidance (PDA) an aspect of him being on the autistic spectrum. It seem to me that the most appropriate way forward would be for your son to be assessed to establish whether or not this is part of his autism.

The National Autistic Society should be able to provide you with more information about PDA in children. Also, as you believe you may be on the autistic spectrum, they may be able to offer you advice about how adults can be assessed. Having an appropriate diagnosis is likely to make it easier for your son to be offered the best support.

I suggest that you ask the social worker to look into how your son can be properly assessed in respect of PDA. CAMHS may be able to assist or at least make a referral.

If children’s services do not take on board your concerns and look into your son being assessed then you may have to consider making a formal complaint and our advice sheet regarding this is here Challenging decisions and making complaints for your information.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes

Suzie

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Out of control teenager

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:10 am

Thank you Suzie for your much welcomed advice.

I am in the midst of writing a response which at this time is currently sitting not quite completed in my draft box.

My sons situation has worsened. Yesterday he attacked the manager of his care home. She had told him NO. He proceeded to grab her by the hair and drag her across the floor. Contact was due to start with myself. He was dropped off in a very heightened state. I was not at that time aware of the before mentioned incident. My phone was in my bag and I had just returned for walking my 3yo to her nursery. There were 6 missed calls from my son and a text from the care home asking that I call them ASAP! That is when I found out what had happened.

My son has been without a school since November. I had no say in this decision as I was not present at either meeting. There is more to this...

Since this time some tutoring has been in place. My son failed to engage. After the 6 week break further tutoring was not arranged. I flagged this up as they have a duty of care to my son. I was ignored. Meetings around naming a school have been ongoing since January. The SEN department named a school. I had already appealed said school for my older son. CS decided to side with me on this occasion. But they then named another school that my older son had attended. The school could not meet his needs. Plus my younger son would hold a negative opinion. I added a great deal more to this however CS agreed my son should attend.

Fast forward to Sunday evening - my son was told by one of the care home staff that he would be going to school in the morning. No explanation given to him of what his day would look like or what support has been arranged. No preparation whatsoever. My son was distraught. School did not happen on Monday as transport had not even been arranged.

I flagged my concerns with both SW and IRO - there is no current plan in place for my son to slowly return to education. There should have been. It had been arranged for 5 full days every week. I spoke with the IRO and said this is not what is supposed to be happening. IRO instructed the SW to put a more robust plan of action in place. I also forwarded info to the IRO in relation to an 'off the record' conversation which took place at one of the SEN meetings. The educational psychologist had been very vocal on which schools should NOT be considered. Both the before mentioned are on this list. Whether or not the EP will take ownership of this conversation I do not know?

My son has very elevated anxiety around school. He can not cope with change. Yesterday the care home staff were attempting to implement even more change in my sons routine. He couldn't handle this nor could he use words to verbalise how he was feeling so lashed out. Might I add that I not condoning what my son has done however I feel his anxiety is at the crux of this.

I flagged up concerns in writing on the 29th of September stating I was extremely fearful my son would target a staff member at his care home. I detailed everything including that some of the staff members can not efficiently get their own expectations across in a way my son understands. He is constantly given different information with causes him frustration - this then leads to anger - which ultimately translates to him lashing out!

My son stayed with me until 8 yesterday evening. He should of left at 2 when contact ended. I was asked to keep him longer. I did not know whether the police would be attending or what. I knew nothing? My 3yo was due to be collected at 2.30pm. I had to arrange for her to stay longer. I was lucky there had been a cancellation. I contacted the complaints officer and made her aware of what had happened. I asked for this to be taken straight to senior management level - which is what I was informed had happened. At 4pm I the same text to the IRO, SW and CH. I was asking to be informed. I had only generic replies. IRO text stating she will get SW to give me a call. CH text stating they still had no information...nothing from SW?

I had to collect my 3yo. My older son was now back from college. I had made him aware prior to him coming home.

At 7pm I received a text from the care home stating my son would have to return. He was now to be 2 to 1 care. I later at 7.50pm received a text from the SW (the only communication I have had) she stated there had been an emergency meeting, 2 to 1 staff agreed. A referral to forensic team has been made. When they have assessed (name) we can look at where will be best to support (name) long term needs. Thanks (SW).

I have no idea what will happen if my son refuses to engage. This assessment was supposed to be done last year. My son was heightened on the day of the second appointment and refused to go. The case was closed!

At this present time there is no mention of my sons autism. He is currently in a care home which is not geared up to meet his needs, SW has no knowledge and nor do the named school.

Another worrying part of this is when the manager of my sons care home requested permission to bring a psychologist to my sons LAC review - this request was rejected by the IRO stating this was my sons meeting. The psychologist has knowledge so why exclude? I don't understand their logic..

I fear for my sons future. I really do.

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: Out of control teenager

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:12 pm

Dear Miserylovescompany2

Thanks for posting again.

I seen from you post that you are very worried about your son and the fact that his needs are currently not been met in his placement.

It is not clear from your post whether there is an EHC plan in place for your son. Children’s services have duties to children in their care in relation to a child’s education as well as other needs. Your son has been out of formal education for nearly a year and this cannot be the best thing for him.

From your post it appears that your son’s specific needs are not understood or being catered for appropriately. He may need to be in a therapeutic environment and perhaps this will be the outcome of the forensic intervention.

You mention that your son has a high level of anxiety, does he receive any medication for this or have any mental health support?
It must be both upsetting and frustrating for you to see your son suffering in this way and not able to help. Children’s services and those caring for your son ought to take on board your views regarding your son since you clearly understand him and his needs more than they do.

You say that a psychologist wished to attend the looked after child review (LAC) for your son but was prevented from doing so. How did the psychologist in question become involved with your son? Was it part of his care plan to have psychological input, if so, I do not understand why he/she would not be allowed to attend. The LAC review to look at what is happening for your son and, if this person is able to provide valuable input in respect of his needs I do not understand why the decision was made. I suggest you ask the social worker/IRO to put the objections in writing to clarify the decision.

Do you think your son would benefit from having an advocate who can help him to express his views and have his voice heard? If you think it would help him, I suggest that you contact Coram Voice on 0808 800 5792 or The National Youth Advocacy Service (NYAS) on 0808 808 1007. You may also find it helpful to contact the National Autistic Society. Hopefully, if your son is able to have an advocate with whom he can develop a relationship of trust this might help him understand more what is happening for him and he can better express his wishes and feelings.

Help at Hand is a service from the Children’s Commissioners for children in care that you may find helpful. Their number is 0800 528 073.

I am also including our advice sheet Duties on Children’s Services when children are in the care system which will provide you with more information about children’s services duties to your son as a child in their care.

You may also find our advice sheet Challenging decisions and making complaints helpful.

Should you wish to speak to an adviser, please telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open Monday to Friday from 9.30am to 3pm.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes

Suzie

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Out of control teenager

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:42 pm

Deleted as I had somehow managed to duplicate my post whilst attempting to edit the gigantic wall of words I have submitted in response. It is evident that I have no technical skills whatsoever...

Thank you Suzie for all of your very helpful and informative responses. I will not attempt to edit again :/
Last edited by Miserylovescompany2 on Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: Out of control teenager

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:02 pm

Miserylovescompany2 wrote:
Suzie, FRG Adviser wrote:Dear Miserylovescompany2

Thanks for posting again.

I seen from you post that you are very worried about your son and the fact that his needs are currently not been met in his placement.

It is not clear from your post whether there is an EHC plan in place for your son. Children’s services have duties to children in their care in relation to a child’s education as well as other needs. Your son has been out of formal education for nearly a year and this cannot be the best thing for him.
Yes, my son has an EHC plan. There is an extensive back story to this which also involves my older son who also has EHC plan. He has accumulated a 5 year void in his education. This has been challenged at various points even whilst on CPP and was taken to a myriad of different managers. Also taken up as a formal complaint.


From your post it appears that your son’s specific needs are not understood or being catered for appropriately. He may need to be in a therapeutic environment and perhaps this will be the outcome of the forensic intervention.The last information I received was from my sons care home. The SW has been to the higher resource panel to secure funding for this assessment - no dates or timeframe have been given as yet. However the potential diagnosis's being spoken of include conduct disorder, personality disorder and PDA. They are leaning more towards conduct disorder? I have done extensive reading on both conduct disorder and personality disorders and I do not believe my son fits into these. I would be lying if I said he didn't have any traits but in my belief not enough to be given a definitive diagnosis. I have also been informed that if PDA was agreed on then my son likely would not get a diagnosis only an agreement that the PDA approach would be used? So why have they not attempted to implement this approach thus far? Because since reading up on this I have altered the way I speak to my son and it has made a difference. I've had a few slip ups and asked him outright to do something and he is straight on the defensive which in my mind shows that altering wording to be less of a direct command/demand actually works. I have made others aware of this however this has been futile.

You mention that your son has a high level of anxiety, does he receive any medication for this or have any mental health support?
It must be both upsetting and frustrating for you to see your son suffering in this way and not able to help. Children’s services and those caring for your son ought to take on board your views regarding your son since you clearly understand him and his needs more than they do.No. There is no support in place. He did have a CPN who worked with him twice per week. This broke down in February of this year after an incident. My son had threatened the CPN and stated that he would bounce his PsVita off of the CPN's head. CPN requested an emergency meeting and then went on annual leave for two weeks. The emergency meeting never happened. The next meeting was CPN stating that he would no longer be involved and CYPS (equivalent to CAHMS here) would be closing the case as my son was beyond therapeutic intervention. This was not challenged by either the SW or the IRO? No. My son has never been on or offered medication for his anxiety or depression.

You say that a psychologist wished to attend the looked after child review (LAC) for your son but was prevented from doing so. How did the psychologist in question become involved with your son? Was it part of his care plan to have psychological input, if so, I do not understand why he/she would not be allowed to attend. The LAC review to look at what is happening for your son and, if this person is able to provide valuable input in respect of his needs I do not understand why the decision was made. I suggest you ask the social worker/IRO to put the objections in writing to clarify the decision.The psychologist is employed by the same company that owns the care home. The manager has been seeking the psychologists advice and recommendations on how best to deal with my son. I was asked by the manager if it was ok for the psychologist to attend the LAC review. This would have been an opportunity for the phycologist to observe my son and how he reacted in a stressful environment. It was also his aim to contribute after my son had left. At this present time there is no person representing my sons MH or with a clear understanding of his actual communication needs. When I am at these meetings my focus is on my son. I am tuning into every movement he makes, the speed of his answers and the tone in his voice. I am ready to act to prevent a serious escalation. My son does have an advocate now. This was only put in place because I flagged this up whilst discussing my lengthy complaint at stage two. I had been requesting an advocate right from the outset when CS initiated court proceedings. I was told repeatedly by the SW at the time that my son had been asked and he didn't want one. I asked my son if he knew what an advocate was? He was clueless. I asked if anyone had offered him one? He said "they said I didn't need one as I can talk and if anything needed to be talked about they (SW) would sort it." As soon as my sons advocate was in place he was allowed at meetings. So prior to this everything was do through the SW. My son did and does not have a clear understanding of what is happening or who he is supposed to talk with. I have given him the Coram Voice contact details. I hope he calls them. Because right now he isn't being heard even with his present advocate. I am not sure what understanding my sons current advocate understands of his needs? He is a very quiet man and doesn't push for answers on my sons questions. Or when the questions are answered they are not addressed fully. Which adds to my sons frustration. The IRO or past SW would usually interrupt him by saying "moving forward." So nothing really gets addressed. Since my son moved to the care home he has not had access to his DLA as it is was still sitting in the previous FC bank account. The SW had no idea of how to proceed with this. So it was passed from meeting to meeting. I was told that CS would open an account. This never happened. Then told that he should have a least 3 accounts but SW couldn't explain why this was necessary or who would be responsible? It was all complete stuff and nonsense. I have finally opened his bank accounts under my name. Which if I'd been told from the start I would have done. The past SW is now the current SW manager so the fun and games will continue...

Do you think your son would benefit from having an advocate who can help him to express his views and have his voice heard? If you think it would help him, I suggest that you contact Coram Voice on 0808 800 5792 or The National Youth Advocacy Service (NYAS) on 0808 808 1007. You may also find it helpful to contact the National Autistic Society. Hopefully, if your son is able to have an advocate with whom he can develop a relationship of trust this might help him understand more what is happening for him and he can better express his wishes and feelings. I will contact the NAS an enquire about their advocacy because a clear understanding of Autism is needed and it is how the questions are asked or gently cajoling in order to actually ascertain what is at the crux of his questions. Unfortunately his spoken words are taken at face value. If you were to ask my son further questions you'd find that a great deal of his responses are superficial and there is no real comprehension behind them. Or worse professionals think because my son can repeat back what was asked therefore he understood!? He doesn't. He doesn't understand that his own actions impact on his future. He doesn't see the bigger picture.

Help at Hand is a service from the Children’s Commissioners for children in care that you may find helpful. Their number is 0800 528 073. Thank you, I will add to my list of numbers to call.

I am also including our advice sheet Duties on Children’s Services when children are in the care system which will provide you with more information about children’s services duties to your son as a child in their care.

You may also find our advice sheet Challenging decisions and making complaints helpful.

Should you wish to speak to an adviser, please telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open Monday to Friday from 9.30am to 3pm.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes

Suzie

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