Baby's father in jail on remand advice
Baby's father in jail on remand advice
My baby's dad is on remand and has been since Feb 2015. I was pregnant at this time and social services have made me cut all contact against him, phone letters visits.. He is charged with sexual assault. I got a new health visitor who doesn't agree with social services and is thinking on my side saying "well what are you going to tell your daughter when she's 16". She agrees with me that they should be able to at least meet each other as prison is a secure supervised environment. I do want my daughter to meet / know her dad but what can social services do against me? In my cp plan it says I can't contact him, my sw has to check with the prison to see if I've visited. According to csc without any evidence they are saying he groomed me, when I know for a fact he didn't. I don't want a relationship with him, this is for my daughter I don't want her to grow up without a dad like I did.
Re: Baby's father in jail on remand advice
I would like to add further information as when I have re read my post I don't give much detail.
cp initial conference was held 27th April 2015, professional involvement agreed to child protection plan under category of neglect. My child was unborn at the time. They wanted sexual harm, but because my babies father was in prison on remand and my daughter was unborn they said sexual harm wasn't appropriate.
Before the cp conference my social worker from the initial response team tried calling me out to be a liar due to me saying he wasn't the dad that it was a possible of 2/3 at the time. They said I deliberately did this to hide the truth from them
They accused me of still being in a relationship with him although we were never in a relationship I had knew him since April 2014, but I would class what we did as a one night stand.
My plan included not having any contact with him, or his associates, not visiting or writing to him. I had numerous other items on the plan involving my pregnancy like attending all planned appointment, working with professionals etc.
I had to have a birth plan submitted to my local hospital and also had to have a pre planning discharge meeting before I was allowed home from hospital.
I had a PLO meeting and at that meeting I had to agree to professional concerns that I was groomed (which to this day I still maintain I wasn't) and again not have any contact with him. If I didn't stick to the PLO expectations they were going to take me to court.
My daughter was born 5th July 2015, and my review conference was on the 7th. In that conference they said he wasn't allowed to be on the birth certificate and they queried if I was going to give her his surname to which I said I wasn't purely to keep them happy. I had to have a parenting assessment done which the outcome was an addendum assessment to be completed.
I had another conference December 8th 2015 to which my social worker was off ill so his manager attended in his place. This manager had not read any of the reports and when he was asked if I had contact with her dad he responded a possible contact. I was outraged as I had not contacted him, and my social worker checks every month for the core group. Again it was agreed on the plan I would not contact him, and if any of his friends tried to contact me to call the police (one of his friends seen me on the bus and I reported this immediately to my social worker).
Now I have a new health visitor due to problems with my old one she agrees with me that he has a right to see her, and she has seen families with worse convictions than him (bear in mind he is on remand) and they still get supervised access.
I have also had conflicting information from different social workers (I have had 4 since they became involved December 2014) first said no contact at all, second said I could but they would not take that as a protecting factor, my current social worker says no, but at my core group was a duty worker my social worker was off and this duty worker turned around and said that if he was released or even after his sentence we could continue a relationship but he would have to do a lot of work or assessments to prove himself. I do not want a relationship with him I just want him to see his daughter. I have seen an article published in the daily mail 2011 where convicted men, who had possession of child pornography got unsupervised access through courts as it is against their human rights to take them away from family life.
Also his cousin is on remand with him for the same thing and his girlfriend takes their son in weekly she has no social services involvement what so ever!! I feel I am at a loss now because my new health visitor was making me think what am I going to tell my daughter when she was old enough?!
cp initial conference was held 27th April 2015, professional involvement agreed to child protection plan under category of neglect. My child was unborn at the time. They wanted sexual harm, but because my babies father was in prison on remand and my daughter was unborn they said sexual harm wasn't appropriate.
Before the cp conference my social worker from the initial response team tried calling me out to be a liar due to me saying he wasn't the dad that it was a possible of 2/3 at the time. They said I deliberately did this to hide the truth from them
They accused me of still being in a relationship with him although we were never in a relationship I had knew him since April 2014, but I would class what we did as a one night stand.
My plan included not having any contact with him, or his associates, not visiting or writing to him. I had numerous other items on the plan involving my pregnancy like attending all planned appointment, working with professionals etc.
I had to have a birth plan submitted to my local hospital and also had to have a pre planning discharge meeting before I was allowed home from hospital.
I had a PLO meeting and at that meeting I had to agree to professional concerns that I was groomed (which to this day I still maintain I wasn't) and again not have any contact with him. If I didn't stick to the PLO expectations they were going to take me to court.
My daughter was born 5th July 2015, and my review conference was on the 7th. In that conference they said he wasn't allowed to be on the birth certificate and they queried if I was going to give her his surname to which I said I wasn't purely to keep them happy. I had to have a parenting assessment done which the outcome was an addendum assessment to be completed.
I had another conference December 8th 2015 to which my social worker was off ill so his manager attended in his place. This manager had not read any of the reports and when he was asked if I had contact with her dad he responded a possible contact. I was outraged as I had not contacted him, and my social worker checks every month for the core group. Again it was agreed on the plan I would not contact him, and if any of his friends tried to contact me to call the police (one of his friends seen me on the bus and I reported this immediately to my social worker).
Now I have a new health visitor due to problems with my old one she agrees with me that he has a right to see her, and she has seen families with worse convictions than him (bear in mind he is on remand) and they still get supervised access.
I have also had conflicting information from different social workers (I have had 4 since they became involved December 2014) first said no contact at all, second said I could but they would not take that as a protecting factor, my current social worker says no, but at my core group was a duty worker my social worker was off and this duty worker turned around and said that if he was released or even after his sentence we could continue a relationship but he would have to do a lot of work or assessments to prove himself. I do not want a relationship with him I just want him to see his daughter. I have seen an article published in the daily mail 2011 where convicted men, who had possession of child pornography got unsupervised access through courts as it is against their human rights to take them away from family life.
Also his cousin is on remand with him for the same thing and his girlfriend takes their son in weekly she has no social services involvement what so ever!! I feel I am at a loss now because my new health visitor was making me think what am I going to tell my daughter when she was old enough?!
Re: Baby's father in jail on remand advice
Here is part of the article published I mentioned
"The Court of Appeal has overturned powers introduced by the last government to protect children from abuse following a landmark legal challenge.
Four men convicted of viewing child pornography online argued it would breach their ‘right to a family life’ to keep them apart from their children and stop them surfing the web.
In a controversial move, the Court of Appeal said judges should no longer impose total bans on sex offenders accessing the internet.
Paedophiles have also won the right to have unsupervised access to their children as it would breach their human rights to keep them apart, judges said.
They ruled the ‘right to a family life’ must be taken into account before Sexual Offences Prevention Orders are issued. The decision by three appeal judges, led by Lord Justice Hughes, will seriously weaken the ability of the courts to place restrictions on offenders.
"The Court of Appeal has overturned powers introduced by the last government to protect children from abuse following a landmark legal challenge.
Four men convicted of viewing child pornography online argued it would breach their ‘right to a family life’ to keep them apart from their children and stop them surfing the web.
In a controversial move, the Court of Appeal said judges should no longer impose total bans on sex offenders accessing the internet.
Paedophiles have also won the right to have unsupervised access to their children as it would breach their human rights to keep them apart, judges said.
They ruled the ‘right to a family life’ must be taken into account before Sexual Offences Prevention Orders are issued. The decision by three appeal judges, led by Lord Justice Hughes, will seriously weaken the ability of the courts to place restrictions on offenders.
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4234
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Baby's father in jail on remand advice
Dear Loopylou
Welcome to the Parents’ Discussion Forum.
My name is Suzie online adviser at Family Rights Group.
I am sorry that you have found yourself in this situation with Children Services due to your daughter’s father being on remand on sexual offence charges. I will respond to your posts in one post.
It appears that Children Services take the view that your daughter’s father poses a risk to you and your daughter. Whilst I understand your concern that you daughter has the right to know her father, the current situation as far as Children Services is concerned is that it is better that he has no contact with her. Have you considered what it would be like for your daughter if she were to get to know her father and then he is sent to prison for a substantial part of her life. It might be more painful for her than not knowing him.
Your daughter is on a child protection plan and my advice is that you should make sure that you do break the plan by doing anything that you have been asked not to do. Our child protection advice sheet is here for your further information.
Although you want to make contact and visit the prison, the child protection plan in place say that you cannot. Do you know when he is due to go to trial? It may be that once the criminal case is over Children Services will look at the situation again. However, it may be that they think if you start visiting him on remand this will be an indication that you intend to be in a relationship with him. I can see that you say the contact you want is for your daughter’s benefit but how is she at this young age going to form a relationship with him?
In your post you say that Children Services is concerned that you have been groomed by your daughter’s father but you do not think this is the case. You say Children Services have no evidence that you have been groomed. Have you undertaken courses of being involved with any services that would help you to recognise how someone can be groomed? I am not sure how you can be so sure about this. You may wish to contact the Lucy Faithfull Foundation on 0808 1000 900 who can advise about the situation you find yourself in with someone charged with sexual offence. Their website is here
You want to know what Children Services can do, if you do not adhere to the terms of the child protection plan and decided to take your daughter to the prison, then Children Services may decide to start care proceedings on the basis that they believe you are putting your daughter at risk. A copy of our advice sheet about care proceedings is included for your information.
The offence your daughter’s father committed is a serious one so if it were the case that you wanted to be in relationship with him, Children Services could be asked to carry out a risk assessment to see the level of risk he poses. This would also be necessary if he wanted to have contact with his daughter. Until the criminal proceedings decide on whether he is convicted and a sentence it is likely that Children Services will not take any in carrying out a risk assessment. He could be deemed to be high risk in the criminal proceedings.
Your new Health Visitor as part of the professional team around you should be discussing her views with Children Services. You need to remember that each case is different and the families that she is referring to have been dealt with on an individual basis to decide whether or not contact should take place. He has not yet been convicted so it is unlikely that she will know the details of his particular case. The question of what you will tell your daughter is something which you will need to consider depending on the outcome of her father's criminal proceedings. The details you receive may help you to decide if you want him in your daughter's life at all. Hopefully, when the time comes, you will be able to tell your daughter about her father and, if necessary, the circumstances which led to him not being a part of her life should that be the case.
I am sorry that you feel you have been given inconsistent advice by social workers. I suggest you ask the Team Manager to confirm to you exactly what the position is and, if you wish, whether a risk assessment could be carried out for supervised contact for the father. It is possible for the father himself to ask for contact if this is what he wants to happen. It might seem that you are pushing for it and this may be of concern to Children Services that it is you who want to be in touch with him.
Regarding the father’s name being on the birth certificate, I do not think that Children Services had the right to insist that his name should not be on the birth certificate. If his name had been on the birth certificate this would mean that he would share parental responsibility with you for your daughter. Children Services would have to give him information about his daughter and he would have a legal right to this. I am including here a copy of our advice sheet about parental responsibility for your information.
I see that you have included a link to a Court of Appeal decision regarding right to family life. Your daughter’s father have not yet been convicted and, if he is, he might have a Sexual Offences Prevention Order imposed by the court as to what he is required to do where children are concerned.
Please continue work cooperatively with Children Services so that you will be seen as a protective factor for your daughter.
You may wish to speak to an adviser and if you do, please telephone our free confidential advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open Monday to Friday from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m.
I hope you will find the information helpful.
Best wishes
Suzie
Welcome to the Parents’ Discussion Forum.
My name is Suzie online adviser at Family Rights Group.
I am sorry that you have found yourself in this situation with Children Services due to your daughter’s father being on remand on sexual offence charges. I will respond to your posts in one post.
It appears that Children Services take the view that your daughter’s father poses a risk to you and your daughter. Whilst I understand your concern that you daughter has the right to know her father, the current situation as far as Children Services is concerned is that it is better that he has no contact with her. Have you considered what it would be like for your daughter if she were to get to know her father and then he is sent to prison for a substantial part of her life. It might be more painful for her than not knowing him.
Your daughter is on a child protection plan and my advice is that you should make sure that you do break the plan by doing anything that you have been asked not to do. Our child protection advice sheet is here for your further information.
Although you want to make contact and visit the prison, the child protection plan in place say that you cannot. Do you know when he is due to go to trial? It may be that once the criminal case is over Children Services will look at the situation again. However, it may be that they think if you start visiting him on remand this will be an indication that you intend to be in a relationship with him. I can see that you say the contact you want is for your daughter’s benefit but how is she at this young age going to form a relationship with him?
In your post you say that Children Services is concerned that you have been groomed by your daughter’s father but you do not think this is the case. You say Children Services have no evidence that you have been groomed. Have you undertaken courses of being involved with any services that would help you to recognise how someone can be groomed? I am not sure how you can be so sure about this. You may wish to contact the Lucy Faithfull Foundation on 0808 1000 900 who can advise about the situation you find yourself in with someone charged with sexual offence. Their website is here
You want to know what Children Services can do, if you do not adhere to the terms of the child protection plan and decided to take your daughter to the prison, then Children Services may decide to start care proceedings on the basis that they believe you are putting your daughter at risk. A copy of our advice sheet about care proceedings is included for your information.
The offence your daughter’s father committed is a serious one so if it were the case that you wanted to be in relationship with him, Children Services could be asked to carry out a risk assessment to see the level of risk he poses. This would also be necessary if he wanted to have contact with his daughter. Until the criminal proceedings decide on whether he is convicted and a sentence it is likely that Children Services will not take any in carrying out a risk assessment. He could be deemed to be high risk in the criminal proceedings.
Your new Health Visitor as part of the professional team around you should be discussing her views with Children Services. You need to remember that each case is different and the families that she is referring to have been dealt with on an individual basis to decide whether or not contact should take place. He has not yet been convicted so it is unlikely that she will know the details of his particular case. The question of what you will tell your daughter is something which you will need to consider depending on the outcome of her father's criminal proceedings. The details you receive may help you to decide if you want him in your daughter's life at all. Hopefully, when the time comes, you will be able to tell your daughter about her father and, if necessary, the circumstances which led to him not being a part of her life should that be the case.
I am sorry that you feel you have been given inconsistent advice by social workers. I suggest you ask the Team Manager to confirm to you exactly what the position is and, if you wish, whether a risk assessment could be carried out for supervised contact for the father. It is possible for the father himself to ask for contact if this is what he wants to happen. It might seem that you are pushing for it and this may be of concern to Children Services that it is you who want to be in touch with him.
Regarding the father’s name being on the birth certificate, I do not think that Children Services had the right to insist that his name should not be on the birth certificate. If his name had been on the birth certificate this would mean that he would share parental responsibility with you for your daughter. Children Services would have to give him information about his daughter and he would have a legal right to this. I am including here a copy of our advice sheet about parental responsibility for your information.
I see that you have included a link to a Court of Appeal decision regarding right to family life. Your daughter’s father have not yet been convicted and, if he is, he might have a Sexual Offences Prevention Order imposed by the court as to what he is required to do where children are concerned.
Please continue work cooperatively with Children Services so that you will be seen as a protective factor for your daughter.
You may wish to speak to an adviser and if you do, please telephone our free confidential advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open Monday to Friday from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m.
I hope you will find the information helpful.
Best wishes
Suzie
Re: Baby's father in jail on remand advice
Thanks suzie for your reply.
I would like to query why social services take the stance of calling him a danger to my child? He has not yet been convicted of the crime and I'm pretty sure in England we have a saying "innocent until proven guilty", social services do not agree with this saying. How is it that people convicted of child pornography win unsupervised access to their children, but my babies father who hasn't even been to trial yet can not even get to meet his child in a secure environment where he would not even be able to do anything? It seems it is 1 rule for me and another for everyone else, especially when his cousin is up for the same thing (his trial is next month) and his partner takes their child in every week to see him. Social services are not involved with her, and especially since they are up because of a police operation targeting grooming, drugs, sexual assault / rape I feel this is wrong that I have social services and she doesn't my daughter has to suffer without a dad. I have told social services this, yet no one has became involved with her or anything has been done so how can I actually take them (csc) seriously? I honestly believe it is unfair to stop my daughter from going to see her dad, but his cousins partner can do as she wishes.
I feel they are actually targeting me. Because they mention my relationship with him, and about how I may become involved with him again if / when he is released. I had a one night stand with him we weren't in a relationship and there is no chance of us being in a relationship as I am currently talking to someone and may take it to a relationship level.
My child protection plan risk statements go as follows
27th April 2015
We are worried that @@@ will continue a relationship with @@@ and if he is released from prison could place the baby at risk of sexual harm and exposure to drug and alcohol use. The risk is increased as a result of @@@ disbelief that @@@ and his associates are guilty of the offences in question
We are worried that @@@ is still being groomed by @@@ and friends and whilst she remains in contact with him will not accept professional concerns
7th July 2015
(Chair) is really happy that @@@ has made changes to her lifestyle and has a new network of friends and is working with professional. It has been a short space of time between meetings and the scores reflect some positive changes. However (chair) would be worried that @@ may return to her old lifestyle and would want to see a prolonged period of stability before discontinuing CPP
Professionals hope that @@@ would not have to attend the trial as it is felt that this would lead to her being in contact with former associates
8th December 2015
We are happy that @@@ is making progress in keeping baby safe and there is no evidence she has contacted former associates or responded to any approaches from associates. We want to see these changes over a longer period of time so we can be satisfied baby is safe and we want to see @@ addressing her own emotional issues so these don't impact on baby.
From these plans it seems they are not trying to stop my baby visiting her dad, but rather me being in contact with him or even starting a relationship (which I want to reinforce I don't want a relationship with him). It does not say on my plan that my daughter can not see her dad whatsoever. But I can tell you social services as a whole contradict themselves in my case. In my child and family assessment done by the initial response team for my initial conference they state about my daughter needing to know her father and heritage examples:
(I didn't know who was the father at the time due to not having periods so until first scan I didn't know my dates.)
"@@@ has denied having any knowledge of who the baby's father is she sees this as her right not to know and has not shown any regard to the baby's right to know her father and heritage"
"However it is equally important for her to be aware of fathers heritage"
"@@@ claims that she does not know the identity of the baby's father meaning there has been no assessment of paternal family"
So one minute They bash me for not wanting to know who the dad is because my daughter has a right to know him, then as soon as I knew who the dad was they turn their opinions to the other side. The above examples are in s written document used in a cpc so surely it means my daughter is allowed to see her dad?
Sorry for the long post / rant but it gets me really angry this subject.
About not going to trial etc, the person who brought the charges against him was my best friend. I have a lot of reasons for believing she may not be telling the truth (meaning I don't believe he is guilty) and it has nothing to do with him possibly "grooming" me. It is because of facts I know about the case which obviously I can't mention on here. I don't know where to go or what to do, because if I talk to my social worker about this he would take the stance that I want to be in a relationship with him, I just want my daughter to see him. My mental health is getting worse because of this & I just don't know what to do.
I would like to query why social services take the stance of calling him a danger to my child? He has not yet been convicted of the crime and I'm pretty sure in England we have a saying "innocent until proven guilty", social services do not agree with this saying. How is it that people convicted of child pornography win unsupervised access to their children, but my babies father who hasn't even been to trial yet can not even get to meet his child in a secure environment where he would not even be able to do anything? It seems it is 1 rule for me and another for everyone else, especially when his cousin is up for the same thing (his trial is next month) and his partner takes their child in every week to see him. Social services are not involved with her, and especially since they are up because of a police operation targeting grooming, drugs, sexual assault / rape I feel this is wrong that I have social services and she doesn't my daughter has to suffer without a dad. I have told social services this, yet no one has became involved with her or anything has been done so how can I actually take them (csc) seriously? I honestly believe it is unfair to stop my daughter from going to see her dad, but his cousins partner can do as she wishes.
I feel they are actually targeting me. Because they mention my relationship with him, and about how I may become involved with him again if / when he is released. I had a one night stand with him we weren't in a relationship and there is no chance of us being in a relationship as I am currently talking to someone and may take it to a relationship level.
My child protection plan risk statements go as follows
27th April 2015
We are worried that @@@ will continue a relationship with @@@ and if he is released from prison could place the baby at risk of sexual harm and exposure to drug and alcohol use. The risk is increased as a result of @@@ disbelief that @@@ and his associates are guilty of the offences in question
We are worried that @@@ is still being groomed by @@@ and friends and whilst she remains in contact with him will not accept professional concerns
7th July 2015
(Chair) is really happy that @@@ has made changes to her lifestyle and has a new network of friends and is working with professional. It has been a short space of time between meetings and the scores reflect some positive changes. However (chair) would be worried that @@ may return to her old lifestyle and would want to see a prolonged period of stability before discontinuing CPP
Professionals hope that @@@ would not have to attend the trial as it is felt that this would lead to her being in contact with former associates
8th December 2015
We are happy that @@@ is making progress in keeping baby safe and there is no evidence she has contacted former associates or responded to any approaches from associates. We want to see these changes over a longer period of time so we can be satisfied baby is safe and we want to see @@ addressing her own emotional issues so these don't impact on baby.
From these plans it seems they are not trying to stop my baby visiting her dad, but rather me being in contact with him or even starting a relationship (which I want to reinforce I don't want a relationship with him). It does not say on my plan that my daughter can not see her dad whatsoever. But I can tell you social services as a whole contradict themselves in my case. In my child and family assessment done by the initial response team for my initial conference they state about my daughter needing to know her father and heritage examples:
(I didn't know who was the father at the time due to not having periods so until first scan I didn't know my dates.)
"@@@ has denied having any knowledge of who the baby's father is she sees this as her right not to know and has not shown any regard to the baby's right to know her father and heritage"
"However it is equally important for her to be aware of fathers heritage"
"@@@ claims that she does not know the identity of the baby's father meaning there has been no assessment of paternal family"
So one minute They bash me for not wanting to know who the dad is because my daughter has a right to know him, then as soon as I knew who the dad was they turn their opinions to the other side. The above examples are in s written document used in a cpc so surely it means my daughter is allowed to see her dad?
Sorry for the long post / rant but it gets me really angry this subject.
About not going to trial etc, the person who brought the charges against him was my best friend. I have a lot of reasons for believing she may not be telling the truth (meaning I don't believe he is guilty) and it has nothing to do with him possibly "grooming" me. It is because of facts I know about the case which obviously I can't mention on here. I don't know where to go or what to do, because if I talk to my social worker about this he would take the stance that I want to be in a relationship with him, I just want my daughter to see him. My mental health is getting worse because of this & I just don't know what to do.
Re: Baby's father in jail on remand advice
Another reply on this topic I know my previous reply was but this is effecting me too much that I can not even sleep (currently 2:09am)
My mental health at the moment is not great, as touched upon very briefly in last post. As part of my cpp I have agreed to take psychotherapy sessions due to this. But this subject I am asking for help / advice on is actually making my mental health worse. I have been in bed since 7pm and still can't sleep. When I shut my eyes all I can think about is how I grew up without my dad (he left my mum 2 weeks before I was born, never met him) it has mentally s*rewed me up! I hated my mum because she never tried to find him, she never told me much & led me to believe my little sisters dad was my dad. I revelled a lot more than regular teenagers do, I was going out clubbing from the age of 14, I dropped out of school, and I had relationships with men double my age and older, and in my past counselling sessions it had been explored that the reason for this could be due to the absence of my own dad so I looked to older men because I didn't have that in my life. I am now 19 year old and I am leading my daughter to the same life! I have to lie to her about who her dad is, she can't see him, he isn't on her birth certificate, and I am obviously not allowed contact with him so he will drop of the face of the earth when she is old enough to decide herself. How can I do this to her knowing what it has done to me. I am sat in tears because I can't handle it all. I talk to people and they tell me / show me things that make me angry, like that article I quoted in my 3rd post on the thread, I was shown on Facebook the fact that another person involved in this gets contact with his child. I actually refuse to do to my daughter what has happened to me.
You mentioned in your previous post Suzie that they shouldn't have stopped me putting him on the birth certificate, can I actually take legal action over this? Because the only way to now add him on the birth certificate is to get a legal dna test which cost £300+ (I certainly don't have the funds!) and then take the results to my local registry office. That would include having contact with her dad & the prison to check that is allowed (dna samples).. Which would mean I've broken my cpp. csc have me backed into every corner with no way out.
When I've been thinking I've had scenarios play out in my head, children's dads picking them up from nursery / school, my daughter will question why she doesn't have a dad. She will probably grow up to hate me like I hate my mum. I can't get this out of my head
I have a core group on Friday where my new health visitor will suggest contact I have already spoke to my sw and I don't know what his reaction will be. I still feel they are making this about my non existent relationship with him rather than my daughter getting to have a relationship with her father
I am going to consult my solicitor soon because I can not put up with this anymore. There is nothing in writing that states my daughter can not see her father but rather in writing encouraging relationship with her father!!
My mental health at the moment is not great, as touched upon very briefly in last post. As part of my cpp I have agreed to take psychotherapy sessions due to this. But this subject I am asking for help / advice on is actually making my mental health worse. I have been in bed since 7pm and still can't sleep. When I shut my eyes all I can think about is how I grew up without my dad (he left my mum 2 weeks before I was born, never met him) it has mentally s*rewed me up! I hated my mum because she never tried to find him, she never told me much & led me to believe my little sisters dad was my dad. I revelled a lot more than regular teenagers do, I was going out clubbing from the age of 14, I dropped out of school, and I had relationships with men double my age and older, and in my past counselling sessions it had been explored that the reason for this could be due to the absence of my own dad so I looked to older men because I didn't have that in my life. I am now 19 year old and I am leading my daughter to the same life! I have to lie to her about who her dad is, she can't see him, he isn't on her birth certificate, and I am obviously not allowed contact with him so he will drop of the face of the earth when she is old enough to decide herself. How can I do this to her knowing what it has done to me. I am sat in tears because I can't handle it all. I talk to people and they tell me / show me things that make me angry, like that article I quoted in my 3rd post on the thread, I was shown on Facebook the fact that another person involved in this gets contact with his child. I actually refuse to do to my daughter what has happened to me.
You mentioned in your previous post Suzie that they shouldn't have stopped me putting him on the birth certificate, can I actually take legal action over this? Because the only way to now add him on the birth certificate is to get a legal dna test which cost £300+ (I certainly don't have the funds!) and then take the results to my local registry office. That would include having contact with her dad & the prison to check that is allowed (dna samples).. Which would mean I've broken my cpp. csc have me backed into every corner with no way out.
When I've been thinking I've had scenarios play out in my head, children's dads picking them up from nursery / school, my daughter will question why she doesn't have a dad. She will probably grow up to hate me like I hate my mum. I can't get this out of my head
I have a core group on Friday where my new health visitor will suggest contact I have already spoke to my sw and I don't know what his reaction will be. I still feel they are making this about my non existent relationship with him rather than my daughter getting to have a relationship with her father
I am going to consult my solicitor soon because I can not put up with this anymore. There is nothing in writing that states my daughter can not see her father but rather in writing encouraging relationship with her father!!
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Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4234
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Baby's father in jail on remand advice
Hi Loopylou,
I can see things are very stressful for you at the moment. Your baby is still very young so your life will be very busy caring for her. You have the added worry about the child protection plan and her father being arrested for a sexual assault.
You have raised so many points. I will try to address them separately. But if I have missed something or got something wrong, please let me know.
Also you were not ranting in your post. Even if you were-do not worry about letting off steam! This is also what the Parents Forum is for!
Dads contact now
It is normal when there is a worry that a parent might harm a child, that a risk assessment is carried out before contact takes place. This is because children are so vulnerable compared to adults.
You are right to say that in respect of the criminal proceedings, dad is innocent until proved guilty. And the police have to show “beyond reasonable doubt” that he committed the offence. So 90% he did commit the crime to 10% he didn’t.
However, when it comes to the children law-which governs children services, the balance of proof is different.
Children services decide on facts based on the “balance of probabilities”. So 60% he committed the crime to 40% he didn’t. So he could be found not guilty but children services might still think he is a risk to your baby.
I am glad that you have mentioned what is in the child protection plan. You have highlighted that children services are also worried about dads drug and alcohol use as well as sexual abuse. So this would need to be assessed as well.
So if dad was under the influence of drugs while he is on remand, then his behaviours during contact may be frightening to your daughter.
Do you know whether dad himself is cooperating with children services? Have they been in touch with him about his views as a parent? Is he asking to have contact? If he isn’t, then they are unlikely to risk assess him.
You could ask them about timescales for his risk assessment. He will have to be risk assessed even before any possible supervised contact.
Is there anyone else who can take your daughter to see her dad, if it is decided that contact is safe?
You should explain to the social worker why you have pushed for contact. It is because you missed out on a father so you do not want the same happening to your daughter.
You can explain that you do not want her to have contact at any cost. You would not want your daughter to be harmed in any way. So you fully support dad being risk assessed.
I am glad that the health visitor is taking up dads contact on his behalf. This should free your time to looking after yourself and your daughter.
You being groomed by dad and his friends
The child protection plan sets out the worry that you may have been groomed by dad and his friends.
I can see that this is making you very worried and that you do not know who to talk to.
If children services “could” be right (you might not agree with them) then they should be providing you with a lot of support under new guidance that deals with grooming.
For example:
• Some local authority’s will fund specialist advocates for children and young women who they are worried have suffered sexual exploitation or been groomed.
• Specialist counselling and guidance is also available.
• A panel meeting (MASE) takes place to consider what support might be useful.
You could speak to PACE (parents against child sexual exploitation) about support for you as a parent.
Here is some information about grooming on the NSPCC .
Your mental health
I am sorry that things are so tough at the moment. Make sure you look after your health needs as you are a carer as well. Your GP or health visitor could advise about treatment for your insomnia. You need to be well so that you can look after your daughter. Children services will see any efforts you make to treat your mental health positively.
I hope this advice helps but if you need further advice, please post back. Or you could call our advice line on 0808 801 0366 for support.
Best wishes,
Suzie
I can see things are very stressful for you at the moment. Your baby is still very young so your life will be very busy caring for her. You have the added worry about the child protection plan and her father being arrested for a sexual assault.
You have raised so many points. I will try to address them separately. But if I have missed something or got something wrong, please let me know.
Also you were not ranting in your post. Even if you were-do not worry about letting off steam! This is also what the Parents Forum is for!
Dads contact now
It is normal when there is a worry that a parent might harm a child, that a risk assessment is carried out before contact takes place. This is because children are so vulnerable compared to adults.
You are right to say that in respect of the criminal proceedings, dad is innocent until proved guilty. And the police have to show “beyond reasonable doubt” that he committed the offence. So 90% he did commit the crime to 10% he didn’t.
However, when it comes to the children law-which governs children services, the balance of proof is different.
Children services decide on facts based on the “balance of probabilities”. So 60% he committed the crime to 40% he didn’t. So he could be found not guilty but children services might still think he is a risk to your baby.
I am glad that you have mentioned what is in the child protection plan. You have highlighted that children services are also worried about dads drug and alcohol use as well as sexual abuse. So this would need to be assessed as well.
So if dad was under the influence of drugs while he is on remand, then his behaviours during contact may be frightening to your daughter.
Do you know whether dad himself is cooperating with children services? Have they been in touch with him about his views as a parent? Is he asking to have contact? If he isn’t, then they are unlikely to risk assess him.
You could ask them about timescales for his risk assessment. He will have to be risk assessed even before any possible supervised contact.
Is there anyone else who can take your daughter to see her dad, if it is decided that contact is safe?
You should explain to the social worker why you have pushed for contact. It is because you missed out on a father so you do not want the same happening to your daughter.
You can explain that you do not want her to have contact at any cost. You would not want your daughter to be harmed in any way. So you fully support dad being risk assessed.
I am glad that the health visitor is taking up dads contact on his behalf. This should free your time to looking after yourself and your daughter.
You being groomed by dad and his friends
The child protection plan sets out the worry that you may have been groomed by dad and his friends.
I can see that this is making you very worried and that you do not know who to talk to.
If children services “could” be right (you might not agree with them) then they should be providing you with a lot of support under new guidance that deals with grooming.
For example:
• Some local authority’s will fund specialist advocates for children and young women who they are worried have suffered sexual exploitation or been groomed.
• Specialist counselling and guidance is also available.
• A panel meeting (MASE) takes place to consider what support might be useful.
You could speak to PACE (parents against child sexual exploitation) about support for you as a parent.
Here is some information about grooming on the NSPCC .
Your mental health
I am sorry that things are so tough at the moment. Make sure you look after your health needs as you are a carer as well. Your GP or health visitor could advise about treatment for your insomnia. You need to be well so that you can look after your daughter. Children services will see any efforts you make to treat your mental health positively.
I hope this advice helps but if you need further advice, please post back. Or you could call our advice line on 0808 801 0366 for support.
Best wishes,
Suzie
Re: Baby's father in jail on remand advice
Hi Suzie thanks for your help once again.
I had my core group on Friday. I mentioned about my mental health being worse since my psychotherapy appointment &I what I posted in my rant about my dad.. Social worker didn't seem bothered in the slightest.
I don't know if you remember me mentioning social services forcing me not to put him on birth certificate? He has not been assessed, no plans to assess and no plans for contact either. Social services have decided no contact what so ever without even doing their assessments on him! Is that legal / fair? It ties in with the birth certificate because in your reply to me you said birth certificate means parental responsibility.. I feel they forced me not to put him on birth certificate so they wouldn't have to assess him automatically with him not having parental responsibility.
With regards to him asking for contact, he doesn't know his daughters name, date of birth or anything. He doesn't know where I live (I moved after he got remanded to prove I was willing to forget him & work with social services) he doesn't know I have social services, or even how to ask for contact because he has no information whatsoever, therefore it is left up to me to get them contact.
With regards to your response about grooming I've had no professional support / courses etc. My cpp was basically members of the core group to talk to me about grooming / sexual exploitation.. No actual professional support from people who are qualified to educate on grooming etc. I don't know whether this would be a good thing to prove I know my daughter would or would not be at risk at a contact?
Your response about drugs and alcohol. He has been charged with supplying / offering to supply class b drugs along the sexual assault. Police have found no drugs during raids & he hasn't been caught in possession. I will admit both me & him did use drugs, I have gave up before I got pregnant and he has been clean since roughly the same time. I obviously don't know what his current drug use position is, I know from headlines that legal highs etc are becoming more easy to get ahold of in jail but he despised legal highs.. I doubt he'd try them, but surely if drug use was a concern he could be tested before contact?
How would you recommend I go about suggesting it because every way I have thought of in my head or even tried has not worked. I appreciate all your advice Suzie you are a credit to this forum!
EDIT
Also I would like to ask Suzie as I mentioned in my post above about my child and family assessment done before my initial conference my social worker at the time had said about my babies right to know her father & heritage.. How can the go back on their word now? He was on remand when that was written also it makes me actually want to laugh the way this system works
!!
I had my core group on Friday. I mentioned about my mental health being worse since my psychotherapy appointment &I what I posted in my rant about my dad.. Social worker didn't seem bothered in the slightest.
I don't know if you remember me mentioning social services forcing me not to put him on birth certificate? He has not been assessed, no plans to assess and no plans for contact either. Social services have decided no contact what so ever without even doing their assessments on him! Is that legal / fair? It ties in with the birth certificate because in your reply to me you said birth certificate means parental responsibility.. I feel they forced me not to put him on birth certificate so they wouldn't have to assess him automatically with him not having parental responsibility.
With regards to him asking for contact, he doesn't know his daughters name, date of birth or anything. He doesn't know where I live (I moved after he got remanded to prove I was willing to forget him & work with social services) he doesn't know I have social services, or even how to ask for contact because he has no information whatsoever, therefore it is left up to me to get them contact.
With regards to your response about grooming I've had no professional support / courses etc. My cpp was basically members of the core group to talk to me about grooming / sexual exploitation.. No actual professional support from people who are qualified to educate on grooming etc. I don't know whether this would be a good thing to prove I know my daughter would or would not be at risk at a contact?
Your response about drugs and alcohol. He has been charged with supplying / offering to supply class b drugs along the sexual assault. Police have found no drugs during raids & he hasn't been caught in possession. I will admit both me & him did use drugs, I have gave up before I got pregnant and he has been clean since roughly the same time. I obviously don't know what his current drug use position is, I know from headlines that legal highs etc are becoming more easy to get ahold of in jail but he despised legal highs.. I doubt he'd try them, but surely if drug use was a concern he could be tested before contact?
How would you recommend I go about suggesting it because every way I have thought of in my head or even tried has not worked. I appreciate all your advice Suzie you are a credit to this forum!
EDIT
Also I would like to ask Suzie as I mentioned in my post above about my child and family assessment done before my initial conference my social worker at the time had said about my babies right to know her father & heritage.. How can the go back on their word now? He was on remand when that was written also it makes me actually want to laugh the way this system works
!!-
Suzie, FRG Adviser
- Posts: 4234
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm
Re: Baby's father in jail on remand advice
Dear Loopylou
Thanks for posting again and I am sorry I was not able to post a reply before now.
I can see that you are still very concerned about your baby father and his right to know her and for her to know him and about her heritage.
You have said in your post that you moved away in order to show Children Services that you were no longer involved with him and therefore he has no details about you and your whereabouts. I think if your daughter’s father want to find out about contact, he knows your name and can get help to make his own enquiries. It is also clear from your previous post that the Health Visitor is taking up the issue of his contact on his behalf.
It is important that you get the help you need to keep yourself and your baby safe. I suggest that you make contact with the organisations that you were given previous posts to get more information about grooming and how to recognise and protect yourself. I am including details of two other organisations Lucy Faithfull and Barnados you may wish to contact as well.
Children Services is likely to be concerned about you being so fixed on contact for the father even though you have said you do not want a relationship with him. If your daughter’s father is found not guilty or is given a non-custodial sentence, he will be free to pursue through the courts an application to get parental responsibility and contact if he wishes to do so.
As you believe your daughter should know about her heritage, as she gets older you can try to give her as much information as you can about her father and his background. At the moment, although it would be good for her to develop a bond with him, the concerns that Children Services has means it is not possible right now but this might change in the future.
You feel that Children Services have gone back on their word about what your daughter needs to know about her father. I do not know the context in which it was said that she needs to know about his heritage but it could be that it was just that they recognise her heritage as this is something that has to be considered in their assessment.
Please try to focus on the Child Protection Plan and what you have been asked to do. If you do not then this could lead Children Services to decide that you are not a protective factor for your daughter as your need to see the father is being put before her needs to be safeguarded. You also run the risk of Children Services taking the view that you lack insight into the concerns that the have about the risk posed by your daughter’s father to you and her because of his background.
Do you feel able to leave the issue of contact for the father to deal with himself when he is able to?
You can of course if you wish, put your concerns in writing to Children Services. Ask why they insisted on your daughter’s father not being on her birth certificate, the fact that they said her heritage is important and ask them to put their reasons in writing so that you can understand why they made the decisions they did.
Please do telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366 if you wish to speak to an adviser about your current situation. The advice line is open Monday to Friday from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m.
I hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Suzie
Thanks for posting again and I am sorry I was not able to post a reply before now.
I can see that you are still very concerned about your baby father and his right to know her and for her to know him and about her heritage.
You have said in your post that you moved away in order to show Children Services that you were no longer involved with him and therefore he has no details about you and your whereabouts. I think if your daughter’s father want to find out about contact, he knows your name and can get help to make his own enquiries. It is also clear from your previous post that the Health Visitor is taking up the issue of his contact on his behalf.
It is important that you get the help you need to keep yourself and your baby safe. I suggest that you make contact with the organisations that you were given previous posts to get more information about grooming and how to recognise and protect yourself. I am including details of two other organisations Lucy Faithfull and Barnados you may wish to contact as well.
Children Services is likely to be concerned about you being so fixed on contact for the father even though you have said you do not want a relationship with him. If your daughter’s father is found not guilty or is given a non-custodial sentence, he will be free to pursue through the courts an application to get parental responsibility and contact if he wishes to do so.
As you believe your daughter should know about her heritage, as she gets older you can try to give her as much information as you can about her father and his background. At the moment, although it would be good for her to develop a bond with him, the concerns that Children Services has means it is not possible right now but this might change in the future.
You feel that Children Services have gone back on their word about what your daughter needs to know about her father. I do not know the context in which it was said that she needs to know about his heritage but it could be that it was just that they recognise her heritage as this is something that has to be considered in their assessment.
Please try to focus on the Child Protection Plan and what you have been asked to do. If you do not then this could lead Children Services to decide that you are not a protective factor for your daughter as your need to see the father is being put before her needs to be safeguarded. You also run the risk of Children Services taking the view that you lack insight into the concerns that the have about the risk posed by your daughter’s father to you and her because of his background.
Do you feel able to leave the issue of contact for the father to deal with himself when he is able to?
You can of course if you wish, put your concerns in writing to Children Services. Ask why they insisted on your daughter’s father not being on her birth certificate, the fact that they said her heritage is important and ask them to put their reasons in writing so that you can understand why they made the decisions they did.
Please do telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366 if you wish to speak to an adviser about your current situation. The advice line is open Monday to Friday from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m.
I hope this helps.
Best wishes,
Suzie
Re: Baby's father in jail on remand advice
Hi suzie back again for advice.
I had found out the girl I had mentioned in previous posts about her taking her son into jail to see his dad (who is charged with same offences as my babies dad) actually has social services support to take her son in. I spoke to my social worker about this & he basically called me and this girl a liar and said I do not believe for a second that any social worker from his office would allow anyone to take their child into prison, when their father is charged with these offences. I then asked him what would happen if I decided I wanted my daughter to see her dad. His reply was that he would have to seek legal advice to take court action to remove my daughter from my care.
I really don't understand this?! So 2 parents under the same circumstances, both of our babies dads are remanded for same investigation and same charges.. But it is one rule for one and another for the other person. I am now wishing to take this further and will be seeking further legal advice, writing to my local mp and potentially taking them to court myself as I will not sit down and take this!!!
Can you advise me the best way to go about this. I have a core group tomorrow and am ready to go in guns blazing, and I have a lot to kick of about tomorrow.
I had found out the girl I had mentioned in previous posts about her taking her son into jail to see his dad (who is charged with same offences as my babies dad) actually has social services support to take her son in. I spoke to my social worker about this & he basically called me and this girl a liar and said I do not believe for a second that any social worker from his office would allow anyone to take their child into prison, when their father is charged with these offences. I then asked him what would happen if I decided I wanted my daughter to see her dad. His reply was that he would have to seek legal advice to take court action to remove my daughter from my care.
I really don't understand this?! So 2 parents under the same circumstances, both of our babies dads are remanded for same investigation and same charges.. But it is one rule for one and another for the other person. I am now wishing to take this further and will be seeking further legal advice, writing to my local mp and potentially taking them to court myself as I will not sit down and take this!!!
Can you advise me the best way to go about this. I have a core group tomorrow and am ready to go in guns blazing, and I have a lot to kick of about tomorrow.
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