We have no immediate plans to relocate but used to live in ****** and have always planned to return one day. The kids have alot of friends there and the pace of life there is alot nicer, houses cheaper etc.
I imagine it's best to wait until CS discharge you before you move area of course letting them know. Do you still let them know if you've been discharged? Another thing stopping us moving yet is that Im still waiting to be able to supervise my children's contact with their Father after 20m. My mum supervises atm. I would hate to have to go through all this again with a new CS would that be a possibility?
edited by Suzie to ensure anonimity
Moving area?
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Miserylovescompany2
- Posts: 220
- Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm
Re: Moving area?
Hello May,
There is nothing stopping you from contacting Children's services in any part of the country and having a theoretical conversation - people with ongoing CS involvement relocate often. I know for a fact families with a child or children that have been removed and placed hundreds of miles away relocate to be closer to those children. I know one of the other boys in my sons care home has come from London - he is placed in the north. All his paperwork was transferred and a SW allocated from his current location.
The same applies for relocation - CS handover the files.
I know your situation is different to the examples I have given however there is NO court order currently stopping you from moving your family.
I hope this helps - I know these are just thoughts and ideas for the future at this stage. Maybe one day you can make these a reality?
There is nothing stopping you from contacting Children's services in any part of the country and having a theoretical conversation - people with ongoing CS involvement relocate often. I know for a fact families with a child or children that have been removed and placed hundreds of miles away relocate to be closer to those children. I know one of the other boys in my sons care home has come from London - he is placed in the north. All his paperwork was transferred and a SW allocated from his current location.
The same applies for relocation - CS handover the files.
I know your situation is different to the examples I have given however there is NO court order currently stopping you from moving your family.
I hope this helps - I know these are just thoughts and ideas for the future at this stage. Maybe one day you can make these a reality?
Re: Moving area?
Hi Misery thanks for your reply it gave me some hope! I hope there would be a possibility that a new LA would view us more favourably but we will see. Have you ever heard if city LA are very different in approach to smaller area LA?
I hope we can manage it one day too. There's alot of bad memories here now
though I do have the support network of my parents here I still have alot of friends there especially in my church network which would be good for me and the kids.
I hope you've had a lovely day BTW!
I hope we can manage it one day too. There's alot of bad memories here now
though I do have the support network of my parents here I still have alot of friends there especially in my church network which would be good for me and the kids.I hope you've had a lovely day BTW!
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PerfectlySafeDad
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:57 am
Re: Moving area?
I don't know anything about relocating, with CS and their long-term prospects for me being an unknown quantity still. I suspect they are 'quiet' in my case only because they have managed to all-but freeze me out of my children's lives by merely a few words breathed down the phone to my ex (who has expressed no desire to reconstruct but only to 'take official 'advice' in everything - which basically means giving herself completely to CS, which is grim for me).
However, my best educated guess based on everything I've heard and experienced about these people is that relocating will go either of 2 ways for you: 1) an easier going authority who will cut you a lot more slack (basically be more intelligent and trusting over this issue) 2) you encounter draconian back-covering cowards who start the whole business up virtually from scratch again, making your lives a nightmare.
I would say it's a gamble. My advice would be ideally get yourself discharged from your current service first, and after that move and why the hell tell anyone (if you are, after all, 'discharged', and especially if no contact conditions in any SHPO; therefore it would not be the police's or anybody's business how you and your man conduct your family life, let alone CS).
I truly hate these people, I hope it doesn't show.
However, my best educated guess based on everything I've heard and experienced about these people is that relocating will go either of 2 ways for you: 1) an easier going authority who will cut you a lot more slack (basically be more intelligent and trusting over this issue) 2) you encounter draconian back-covering cowards who start the whole business up virtually from scratch again, making your lives a nightmare.
I would say it's a gamble. My advice would be ideally get yourself discharged from your current service first, and after that move and why the hell tell anyone (if you are, after all, 'discharged', and especially if no contact conditions in any SHPO; therefore it would not be the police's or anybody's business how you and your man conduct your family life, let alone CS).
I truly hate these people, I hope it doesn't show.
Re: Moving area?
Thanks for you reply PSD. I agree it would be a gamble definitely. I'll see where the next year leads us. I certainly hope to be supervising by summer. I cannot believe I am still not allowed to.
Does SS involvement stay on the children's records somewhere anywhere in the UK? Obviously schools and hospitals know. Also my husband will be on the SOR for another 6 years. Is there ever an option of being discharged early? So if he was ever allowed to live at home with us while on the register then they would want SS to review the situation in the new area?
I certainly hope all of us posting including yourself have progress in the coming year.
Does SS involvement stay on the children's records somewhere anywhere in the UK? Obviously schools and hospitals know. Also my husband will be on the SOR for another 6 years. Is there ever an option of being discharged early? So if he was ever allowed to live at home with us while on the register then they would want SS to review the situation in the new area?
I certainly hope all of us posting including yourself have progress in the coming year.
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PerfectlySafeDad
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:57 am
Re: Moving area?
Yes, as long as he is on the register any social services will automatically take the view it is a 'risk' situation and needs to be looked at, regardless of it has already been looked at in a previous area or work already done. Once a person is on the register, any type of safeguarding agency that comes along afterwards simply take the view that it is official, it's 'correct' and that the person is a risk to children in any setting, even though often it's incorrect in actuality. I believe it's still possible to live with the family even if not discharged, but needs luck and hard work I think.
The register time cannot be discharged early if it came with a custodial sentence; 7 years on it if the sentence was less than 6 months, 10 years if more than 6 months and 'life' if more than 2 years (maybe can appeal at 15 years, not sure). If a person is only on the register because of a SHPO (ie no other sentence) then he'll be off it when the SHPO ends, and it is possible to appeal to get rid of some SHPOs early, but normally they'll last at least 5 years. I really don't know how they arrive at these numbers, what overpaid legal geniuses have sat in a plush chamber to discuss this stuff, it makes me sick TBH, the playing around with years of people's lives. It's draconianism on top of draconianism with every sentence being like a 3-layered cake; the sentence itself, the SHPO and the time on the register. There's something very paranoid and bullying about it; only 'sex' offences get this treatment. Yes, we need sentences and the indecent image epidemic needs tackling somehow, but ripping up the lives of the 'small fry' here there and everywhere is achieving absolutely nothing and harming a lot. There should be two numbers at most; the sentence/SHPO and the register, and the latter should not be a crucifying amount of time longer than the first; then everybody should have the right to make a clean start.
The harshest aspect of the lot - and most damning indictment of Britain as a (not) civilized society - is that after all this has been negotiated by an ex-offender, social services then still hover like harpies and effectively try to turn something that is temporary and rehabilitative into a 'life sentence' all so they can feel they have done their holy duty.
The register time cannot be discharged early if it came with a custodial sentence; 7 years on it if the sentence was less than 6 months, 10 years if more than 6 months and 'life' if more than 2 years (maybe can appeal at 15 years, not sure). If a person is only on the register because of a SHPO (ie no other sentence) then he'll be off it when the SHPO ends, and it is possible to appeal to get rid of some SHPOs early, but normally they'll last at least 5 years. I really don't know how they arrive at these numbers, what overpaid legal geniuses have sat in a plush chamber to discuss this stuff, it makes me sick TBH, the playing around with years of people's lives. It's draconianism on top of draconianism with every sentence being like a 3-layered cake; the sentence itself, the SHPO and the time on the register. There's something very paranoid and bullying about it; only 'sex' offences get this treatment. Yes, we need sentences and the indecent image epidemic needs tackling somehow, but ripping up the lives of the 'small fry' here there and everywhere is achieving absolutely nothing and harming a lot. There should be two numbers at most; the sentence/SHPO and the register, and the latter should not be a crucifying amount of time longer than the first; then everybody should have the right to make a clean start.
The harshest aspect of the lot - and most damning indictment of Britain as a (not) civilized society - is that after all this has been negotiated by an ex-offender, social services then still hover like harpies and effectively try to turn something that is temporary and rehabilitative into a 'life sentence' all so they can feel they have done their holy duty.
Re: Moving area?
I sincerely hope that we won't have more assessments etc etc if we moved after being discharged from CS if he was still on the register. I think he's on for another 6 years as he received a 6m sentence suspended for 2 years and 150 hours of community service which he finished quite quickly. I am glad he didn't get the SHPO CS kept asking for that sounds a pain to have yet another thing to contend with!
Re: Moving area?
Hello May12345,
The others have already answered your questions, just adding a bit.
===
In terms of your relocation:
Social care have no national record of children subject to social care intervention. The NHS have electronic Child Protection-Information Sharing - I am not sure whether it notifies services only about current Child Protection involvement or whether it would also show past CP involvement.
There are the following options:
1) Your local social services close your case before your move. When you move to ******, your current local authority will not notify them unless you give them your consent and there is no duty for you to inform ****** social care about your previous social care involvement unless you are asked by them directly should they become involved themselves because of new concerns/a new referral.
2) The case will remain open to your current Local Authority before your move to ****** and you will inform your current social worker about the move:
If your child will be subject to court proceedings, your current Local Authority is likely to remain involved.
If your child will be subject to Child Protection planning, your social worker will refer you to ****** and there will be a transfer-in conference and at the conference, a decision will be made whether your child should remain subject to the Child Protection Plan; if that is the case, ****** will take on the case.
If your child will be subject to Child in Need planning at the time of your move, your social worker will refer you to ****** and it will be then their decision whether they will continue working with you or not, depending on whether your case will meet threshold for further social care intervention. However, Child in Need planning is voluntary and you may therefore choose to decline it (the new Local Authority will then consider whether the case meets a threshold for Child Protection, ie. whether your child is at risk of significant harm, and if it does not meet the threshold, they cannot force you to work with them).
===
In terms of your supervising your husband's contact. As you say, there will have to be an assessment completed either by your current social worker or the newly allocated in ****** which will consider your capacity to ensure safe contact between your husband and your child. All local authorities have similar guidelines when conducting this assessment so the outcome of it should be the same regardless of where the assessment takes place.
However, the newly allocated social worker will have to get all the information from your current local authority, familiarise themselves with the case etc. This may introduce a delay in getting the assessment done.
If Social Care are not allowing you to supervise the contact, they probably don't believe that you have a good insight into the risk posed by your husband and as such they are worried that you will not be able to protect your child from it; or they may believe you have a good insight but for whatever reason are worried that you will still not be able to protect your child from it.
===
In terms of your husband being allowed to return home with your child. As you say, this would have to be very likely assessed by the Local Authority where you will be living at that time when his SOR conditions expire - your social worker should give you guidance about who to contact and when should you want for the assessment to take place once the case is closed. I can imagine that they will tell you to contact your local social services once the SOR conditions expire and request an assessment of your husband in terms of determining the level of risk he poses and your ability to protect your child from the identified risk then. Social Services may assess your husband as continuing posing a risk to your child even once he is no longer subject to the sex offender register - this will depend on his situation then.
It is very important that you do not allow your husband to move in without the assessment being completed and the outcome of it being positive. It may be that once you contact the Local Authority asking for the assessment, they may advise that none is required and your husband can move in but it is important that this is the decision of the Local Authority and not yours since you would be likely seen as not protective should you make the decision yourself.
===
Lastly, in terms of the early discharge of the requirements linked to the sex offender register. I don't know the answer to that but your husband's Violent and Sex Offender Register (ViSOR) officer should be able to tell him - I believe that he has one.
The others have already answered your questions, just adding a bit.
===
In terms of your relocation:
Social care have no national record of children subject to social care intervention. The NHS have electronic Child Protection-Information Sharing - I am not sure whether it notifies services only about current Child Protection involvement or whether it would also show past CP involvement.
There are the following options:
1) Your local social services close your case before your move. When you move to ******, your current local authority will not notify them unless you give them your consent and there is no duty for you to inform ****** social care about your previous social care involvement unless you are asked by them directly should they become involved themselves because of new concerns/a new referral.
2) The case will remain open to your current Local Authority before your move to ****** and you will inform your current social worker about the move:
If your child will be subject to court proceedings, your current Local Authority is likely to remain involved.
If your child will be subject to Child Protection planning, your social worker will refer you to ****** and there will be a transfer-in conference and at the conference, a decision will be made whether your child should remain subject to the Child Protection Plan; if that is the case, ****** will take on the case.
If your child will be subject to Child in Need planning at the time of your move, your social worker will refer you to ****** and it will be then their decision whether they will continue working with you or not, depending on whether your case will meet threshold for further social care intervention. However, Child in Need planning is voluntary and you may therefore choose to decline it (the new Local Authority will then consider whether the case meets a threshold for Child Protection, ie. whether your child is at risk of significant harm, and if it does not meet the threshold, they cannot force you to work with them).
===
In terms of your supervising your husband's contact. As you say, there will have to be an assessment completed either by your current social worker or the newly allocated in ****** which will consider your capacity to ensure safe contact between your husband and your child. All local authorities have similar guidelines when conducting this assessment so the outcome of it should be the same regardless of where the assessment takes place.
However, the newly allocated social worker will have to get all the information from your current local authority, familiarise themselves with the case etc. This may introduce a delay in getting the assessment done.
If Social Care are not allowing you to supervise the contact, they probably don't believe that you have a good insight into the risk posed by your husband and as such they are worried that you will not be able to protect your child from it; or they may believe you have a good insight but for whatever reason are worried that you will still not be able to protect your child from it.
===
In terms of your husband being allowed to return home with your child. As you say, this would have to be very likely assessed by the Local Authority where you will be living at that time when his SOR conditions expire - your social worker should give you guidance about who to contact and when should you want for the assessment to take place once the case is closed. I can imagine that they will tell you to contact your local social services once the SOR conditions expire and request an assessment of your husband in terms of determining the level of risk he poses and your ability to protect your child from the identified risk then. Social Services may assess your husband as continuing posing a risk to your child even once he is no longer subject to the sex offender register - this will depend on his situation then.
It is very important that you do not allow your husband to move in without the assessment being completed and the outcome of it being positive. It may be that once you contact the Local Authority asking for the assessment, they may advise that none is required and your husband can move in but it is important that this is the decision of the Local Authority and not yours since you would be likely seen as not protective should you make the decision yourself.
===
Lastly, in terms of the early discharge of the requirements linked to the sex offender register. I don't know the answer to that but your husband's Violent and Sex Offender Register (ViSOR) officer should be able to tell him - I believe that he has one.
Re: Moving area?
Hello Dorothy, Thankyou for replying and for listing the related choices clearly.
I am not in a rush to move and would hope that we can become discharged from CS before we move area especially if we were to have to repeat different processes but my husband is likely to still be on the SOR when we do move. I believe he's on it until 2024 by which time our children will all be alot older. I have not been told that being on a SOR would prevent him from returning home, reunification has been mentioned at the CPCs as a possibility but since the report from the Psychologist this was not recommended as we currently present. I'm not sure how many of my many
posts you have read but there were many elements of the report that were incorrect. Parts regarding my husband that are not the case currently which have made him medium risk instead of low and most frustratingly for myself 'opinions' from the Psychologist that I would not expect my husband to reoffend. He stated I did not believe he would reoffend when he has never asked me this! In prior reports I told the protective parenting woman that I can never believe that he would not reoffend, that he will always pose a risk and I can never feel he doesn't as this would not make me vigilant in protecting my children. I regularly check my husbands devices myself. If I did not believe or expect him to reoffend I would not be doing this surely! Things like this have been twisted and written in the Dr's opinion but sadly my voice doesn't account for much.
My husband has his devices regularly monitored by a Public protection officer and he sees a Probation officer with whom he has a good working relationship. I have never heard of a VISOR officer. He does not have a SHPO either. Both times that it was applied for after CS requested it it was declined by the magistrate. His offence was online offending. The outcome of the psychological report was low risk of contact offending the Dr said unlikely but obviously can't be ruled out and medium of reoffending online at present due to drinking over the recommended amount of alcohol. This is the part that was incorrect as he drank more alcohol when he first left hope as a way of coping but that was in 2017 and this year he hardly drinks alcohol.
Its all so complicated with alot of details. I've forgotten what it's like to not have my head full of all of this.
I certainly would not move him back in without the LA saying so. Its been 20 months now since he left home. I am sure when they discharge us they will say what our future holds. Though as I mentioned before they keep asking me if I want reunification. If its not an option in the future I don't understand why they keep asking. Regarding our relationship I'm not thinking of that currently. I am only focusing on caring for our children all five take alot of my time and energies and proving myself protective in the LF report. All reports from school all the health professionals can vouch for me always being a strong advocate for my son with his health difficulties and all our other children. There care is above requirements which is why it is so infuriating and insulting for the Dr who interviewed me for less than an hour to make these assumptions which have a huge impact on our lives.
I am not in a rush to move and would hope that we can become discharged from CS before we move area especially if we were to have to repeat different processes but my husband is likely to still be on the SOR when we do move. I believe he's on it until 2024 by which time our children will all be alot older. I have not been told that being on a SOR would prevent him from returning home, reunification has been mentioned at the CPCs as a possibility but since the report from the Psychologist this was not recommended as we currently present. I'm not sure how many of my many
posts you have read but there were many elements of the report that were incorrect. Parts regarding my husband that are not the case currently which have made him medium risk instead of low and most frustratingly for myself 'opinions' from the Psychologist that I would not expect my husband to reoffend. He stated I did not believe he would reoffend when he has never asked me this! In prior reports I told the protective parenting woman that I can never believe that he would not reoffend, that he will always pose a risk and I can never feel he doesn't as this would not make me vigilant in protecting my children. I regularly check my husbands devices myself. If I did not believe or expect him to reoffend I would not be doing this surely! Things like this have been twisted and written in the Dr's opinion but sadly my voice doesn't account for much.My husband has his devices regularly monitored by a Public protection officer and he sees a Probation officer with whom he has a good working relationship. I have never heard of a VISOR officer. He does not have a SHPO either. Both times that it was applied for after CS requested it it was declined by the magistrate. His offence was online offending. The outcome of the psychological report was low risk of contact offending the Dr said unlikely but obviously can't be ruled out and medium of reoffending online at present due to drinking over the recommended amount of alcohol. This is the part that was incorrect as he drank more alcohol when he first left hope as a way of coping but that was in 2017 and this year he hardly drinks alcohol.
Its all so complicated with alot of details. I've forgotten what it's like to not have my head full of all of this.
I certainly would not move him back in without the LA saying so. Its been 20 months now since he left home. I am sure when they discharge us they will say what our future holds. Though as I mentioned before they keep asking me if I want reunification. If its not an option in the future I don't understand why they keep asking. Regarding our relationship I'm not thinking of that currently. I am only focusing on caring for our children all five take alot of my time and energies and proving myself protective in the LF report. All reports from school all the health professionals can vouch for me always being a strong advocate for my son with his health difficulties and all our other children. There care is above requirements which is why it is so infuriating and insulting for the Dr who interviewed me for less than an hour to make these assumptions which have a huge impact on our lives.
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