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Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:04 am
by Miserylovescompany2
I think Suzie only works part time. I have not seen her post on a weekend.

Have CS ever put anything in writing about taking your case to court? Has the SW discussed the possibility in front of others at a meeting?

With regard to the SW coming around and messing up your routine - I had this also. They would make sure it was always at a mealtime. My eldest refused to participate in the end. He never allowed the SW in his room. Near the end of the CPP I had had enough of the intrusion and disruption - I told the SW that I didn't consent to her going upstairs in my house. I had allowed her to do so previously and the upstairs of my home had absolutely nothing to do with why the children were on a CPP. Nothing more was said. If there are no concerns regarding your home that level of intrusion is not necessary. I asked them to make appointment also and not to intrude on mealtimes. I sent my reasoning in an email. Both my eldest have autism and the visits, room checks were causing them distress. I guess you could do the same re your routine.

If you have unanswered questions write them down and send them to the SW - blind CC in all the other people involved. That way if the SW is ignoring you everyone else involved will see. For the past few month I have been doing this with every email. I've blind CC'd management, IRO and caught SW out in some whopping lies. I have caught them all out.

Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:25 am
by DD2SS
Morning May, just wanted to give you some warm words this morning, sounds like you've had a miserable weekend.

I hope you have spoken to your solicitor this morning/today and have had some advice. Hopefully Suzie will pick up on those things that they find most important. Why not give FRG a call?

My experiences are in private law, not public law, but I presume the principles in court are the same. I have been through the court process, and over many years, but believe me even with legal support each hearing was impossible to predict.

Anyway, you're not there yet. You are trying to come to some kind of agreement with CS. Court is there to rule on points where the parties disagree, not where they agree. At the moment, you seem to agree on many of the important child-focussed points: that the kids need supervision (I again say that with caution, the supervision needs to be practical and proportionate to risk); that you need to undertake further work; that you currently do not wish your husband to come home. So while CS might want to resolve certain issues or eliminate future problems, such as by getting you to agree that your husband shouldn't come home, given that you currently agree with that position and there is other work to be done in the meantime that will ultimately dictate the final outcome and arrangements, I think that can be put to one side at the moment.

Just to re-emphasise, you actually want elements of the forensic psychologists report to stand up to cross-examination, because its supports the position that your husband is low risk with the kids. The question is what this means in practicality and whether that requires supervision. This psychologist can help your case.

Yes, I have had multiple assessments, and I have normal, unsupervised contact with my children. It is possible.

Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:53 pm
by Miserylovescompany2
Hello DD2SS

Can I ask you a question please? Who initiated the private law case. Was this in the UK? From my understanding not many families reach the point that you have with regard to ever achieving normal unsupervised contact. Some families still have restrictions in place when their own children have children of their own.

I know that not one case is ever the same so each outcome will be varied. Your own case does give others in a similar situation hope though - unfortunately not many can afford to go along the private law route and have to work within the realm of a system that is currently in place. Children's services actually reaching the point of initiating court proceedings does not happen often in these cases. The other parent is normally so worn down that they agree to the imposed restrictions just to get CS out of their lives and have some sense of normality.

May - I have never gone against CS. I have simply asked for clarification and asked many questions. If you can get clarity and your questions answered through your solicitor then this will be better for you. CS can not then state you are working against them. I hope this helps.

Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:58 pm
by DD2SS

Your points are well taken. This was in the English courts and initiated by myself.

You are so right about the affordability of family law - I wouldn't want you to think that I don't realise that being able to fight a case like this is a privilege (even though it shouldn't be, of course). There is so much that is wrong with a system in which justice is for sale and without legal aid available.

I am also learning a huge amount from you and others about how CS operate. The kids were represented in my case, which provided a legal safety so that the Guardian made legally robust decisions. It seems to me from what is written here that this often isn't the case with CS, who may not expect their decisions to be tested in court because, as you say, the cases never get there.

I suppose I'm writing here because I do hope it gives some hope to other people in similar situations. The issues of risk and its management are the same. I was also true in my case that giving up would have been the easier (and certainly cheaper) option, but you have to do your best for the kids, right? There were dark, dark days and nights. I also don't want people to think I got everything I wanted - I certainly didn't - so compromises had to be made - but these were better for the children. The passing of time helped - the process took years. But it can be done and it has made me a better person, I think, and certainly a better dad.

Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:18 am
by May12345
Hi Misery, Thankyou for those tips. I had never considered asking or telling the SW not to go into their bedrooms. I guess there's always the fear that they may perceive that as me not working with them or trying to hide something when the reality is I hate unannounced because I haven't always hoovered that day etc 😂 I'm going to look up how to blind cc I didn't know there was such a thing!

DD2SS thankyou also so much for your words and for giving me some encouragement and positivity. It's really helpful to have someone else's perspective on the report and the current circumstances. It's also so interesting to read about how you have managed over years to be able to parent your children with more freedom. It's quite amazing. Is private law when you pay and don't use Legal aid? I mentioned before that we were going to fund the LF assessment as a second opinion if necessary, you said this probably wasn't necessary but after enquiring to LF again my husband was told that we could only fund and commission an assessment through them if the LA had instructed it even if we paid ourselves! I was shocked at that. How many years was it before your partner could supervise? Then how long before you didn't need supervision? Is it true that CS won't let a father who is on the register reside at home until he is off the register? The manager seemed shocked that its been 19m now and I'm still not supervising. I forgot to say also in the report my husband told the Dr how when he had to go out son and daughter found things of theirs to give him to think of them. They were upset. We all were. Saying we love you daddy etc. Our then 6 year old cried and begged him not to go. In his report the Dr wrote that when he had to leave he took some of the childrens things..... How wrong and twisted is that. My husband corrected thst at the PLO by telling them how he had reworded it. His solicitor also told them how he doesn't drink much at all and definitely not what the Dr said. Interestingly the Dr didn't recommend he cut down or have alcohol testing.....

Anyway, good news!
The PLO went really well. I didn't initially realise until afterwards my solicitor seemed shocked and really surprised at the turn of events.... The only thing I questioned and pulled up the SW on was how it would be unfair on my children to take my time to make a decision on whether I wanted their Father to come home or not. I did apologise before I said it as I did feel a bit mean as he said nothing but praise about my parenting and care of the children. He was gushing about it but we also noticed how he said the children are 'very happy'. They are happy to a certain extent because we all have to function and life carries on but they ask for and cry for their Daddy regularly. He probably needs reminding of this. Anyway my solicitor was half expecting the LA to give me a time frame to decide on what I wanted from our relationship. Instead the Team manager who was one we hadn't met before and seemed very with it and authorities but in a good way agreed with me that it's more sensible to take my time and reflect on the course etc. She also said contact should stay the same which I was annoyed about initially as I obviously want progress more contact and me supervising but that's not going to happen yet and the solicitors were worried contact could be reduced because of the report! So that was a positive thing. I
The SW told everyone how I was not pleased with the report and that I didn't agree with it all so I then said how I disagreed strongly with the Dr saying I didn't think my husband would reoffend. I then told them how I with his permission announced and unannounced check his devices myself. They seemed quite surprised. Also whenever the manager said they want the children to be safe I said that that is what I want too.
Before she left the manager actually said, "You're doing well, keep going" to me....
My husbands solicitor told him that it had gone really well and that she felt the LA wanted us to do well but that they need to do these things to make sure the children are safe. She said she's seen alot worse outcomes. She also said she thought I was intelligent and well versed with the courses and information etc (I had to remind the SW the name of the course) I think she was surprised how much I spoke because before the first plo she assumed that I needed to let the LA know that I understand their concerns. This I have never disagreed with.
The Manager was also talking of next plo being in Feb and also mentioned April... I think that's a code for them not being able to be on plo past then? It's 26 weeks then.... So all in all I'm feeling alot more positive and I also feel stronger. I'm not nervous of any of them now and will make my voice heard with respect and letting them know how much our children mean to us. Very relieved that's over for now!

Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:59 am
by Miserylovescompany2
Hello May

Bind CC or BCC is under CC (which I believe stands for carbon copy?) when sending an email on my iPad CC is directly under where you enter the email address of the recipient. BCC is under CC - if you click on BCC you can add how ever many other email addresses and the person who you are sending the email to in the first instance will only be able to see their email address.

I'm not technical at all however my 17yo explained the benefit. In our case we are having ongoing difficulty with the SW lying. So for the last few month each email that I've sent to her I've BCC'd in about 7 or more others. I asked whether I could take my 13yo on part of a family holiday and was ignored. I emailed and received a response stating SW had supervision with their manager and would ask on x date. No response. I sent another email asking if there had been a decision made? The email I received back from SW contradicted all the previous emails stating they had only just been made aware on z date. I then sent a querying email to the IRO who'd been one of the BCC'd people. Within 30 minutes I'd been told the holiday could go ahead and a meeting to discuss a safety plan should be arranged for beforehand...meeting never happened.

All the emails were also received by managers and alike. They are the people making the bigger decisions.

So far I have managed to obtain the email addresses of two managers. I actually only had the name of the second however in my county the email addresses are pretty generic for example ann.brown@(insert your county)

Hope this helps :)

Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:28 am
by Miserylovescompany2
May I don't know if you are aware? It might be of use if you have a look at at post by @OneTimeBadDad. It's on a thread titled 'Partner arrested for possessing indecent images.'

He has shared his own timeline and subsequent outcomes thus far.

Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:44 am
by May12345
Thank you I always wondered what BCC meant! I've used CC many a time to managers as it adds more 'threat' to the SW for want of a better word to take heed and keep the managers up to speed. I also guessed the generic email for the chair after the the last SW refused to give me her contact details. I loved the look on her face when I told her I'd emailed her haha! I haven't seen that thread many thanks for that!

Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:42 pm
by May12345
Misery I can't find the post....

Does anyone know if a Father is deemed medium risk is it CS duty to provide work to lower that? Or will they just ensure I can manage it for contact? My husband is going to be asking his solicitor and CS how he can lower the risk. Thry haven't booked a review for him with the Psychologist.

SW came again today so we won't see him over Xmas. He asked me AGAIN what I want for our relationship. Again I told him I don't know yet! THEN he told me that just so I'm aware
CS can't support reunification!!! He left off at the moment.... Should I give up hope or is he just trying to make me? Who has the final say? If that's what I decide we will not give up.

Re: Time together as a couple advice

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:10 am
by PerfectlySafeDad
What absolute c***s. They have absolutely no moral right (maybe not even a legal one, if this is still a free country) to say they 'can't support reunification'.
Yes, there's some concern over your husband, 'however small', but from your earlier posts it's apparent he's done all the right things to address the offending, and furthermore the offending was about the mildest level possible as crimes against children go: low category images, not a great many of them, no distribution, no involvement at source and no contact history of any kind? Steady; yes I know that no crime against children is 'mild' as such (including those committed by CS on a regular basis - emotional harm).
Also you yourself have worked with them, whilst under the pressure of raising children including a baby, whilst these idiots harass you in the name of child protection. It just goes to show they do not have the decency to reciprocate anything, even when a person does as they ask.
On top of this, the children want him home, they want to grow up having a normal life with their Dad, you have a 15-year marriage so it's hardly as if he's an exploitative stranger who has walked into your lives.
There 'might' be a safeguarding issue, but there is definitely a human rights issue - yours, his, AND the children's - to a family life. I hope you can fight this for all it's worth.
In my opinion, if you express a desire for it, they ought to have an obligation to SUPPORT reunification and give you both actual 'support' (not their version of it) in this - within the context of your husband's rehabilitation, which ought to be deemed as conclusively measured by successful completion of accredited courses (not an insane number of them either), and especially by the time he is off any SHPO, and if he gets off the register then that should be END OF any involvement whatsoever of any degree they have on this issue.
Everytime I hear safeguarding involvement of the extent that blocks unsupervised contact on the basis of a possible 'future crime' by association, I'm more and more convinced it's wrong wrong wrong. How has this dystopia become acceptable? It's blatantly unethical. So there's a 'risk' is there? Well, FFS take that risk. Life is risk! The man has done nothing against those children or any other to merit such draconianism. The offences, as demonstrated by law, are the only issue to be addressed, anything else is tyranny.
Not supporting reunification is tantamount to not supporting rehabilitation, which is tantamount to contempt of the law, which is a crime. The CS are thus criminals.