probation officer vs children services

mva17
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:55 am

probation officer vs children services

Post by mva17 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:46 pm

I got a agreement that i need to sign that say any contact with dad should be done outside the family home supervised by me. when i spoke to children services on the phone, as they seen to busy to see me. I say to them the children usually see their dad outside the house because it is easier for me. however there are times when he need to come to the house, even if is only for a couple of hours to play same games o have tea with the children. it is very expensive to go out all the time and not good for the kids. Anyway i spoke to the probation officer that work with my husband and see not problem on him to come to the house. she said she was going to tell that to children services so they can rewritte the agreement (which i haven't signed anyway jet). No one has been in contact jet to say one way or another
My question is. who will have the last word? the probation or children services.

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: probation officer vs children services

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:38 pm

Who will have the last word? I'd hazard a guess at CS. Ideally the probation officer should be putting into writing what their professional view is and SW should be using this. I would seek legal advice before signing anything. These agreements are not legally binding however failure to a adhere to them can be used in a negative way. Also these agreements can sometimes be written in an ambiguous way. So the wording is very important.

User avatar
Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 2120
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:57 pm

Re: probation officer vs children services

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:32 pm

Dear mva17

Thank you for you further post.

It appears that you are deemed by children’s services as able to safely supervise contact between your children and their father. You say that there is an agreement that you have been requested to sign. This agreement has not yet been signed by you as you are unclear about exactly what is expected.

I think it is important that you ask the social worker to make it absolutely clear the reasons behind the requirement that all contact should be outside the home. It may be that children’s services are concerned that supervision in the home may not be as clear cut as outside the home and the opportunities for the children to be alone with your husband may arise in the home.

However, as they have already told you they are satisfied that probation is working with your husband they do not need to be further involved unless something changes as you mentioned in a previous post. In those circumstances, if the probation has no concerns about your husband being in the home then the social worker should make it clear the specific concerns they have about your husband spending limited time in the home.

Please refer to my earlier post at the beginning of the month in response to your post about signing the agreement.

Ask for meeting with the probation officer and the social worker so that they can discuss the situation and reach a conclusion on which both agree so that your are absolutely clear about what is expected of you.

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie

mva17
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:55 am

Re: probation officer vs children services

Post by mva17 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:04 pm

thanks for the answer. I tried to call the children services and send an email asking for a clarification but they are to busy to get back to me. I just worried that they say something different to probation. Anyway i found quite difficult to understand the lack of interest or support. i know they are busy but they must be wonder why i didn't sign the agreement. so until i sign it there's no agreement between us? or i still need to do what they say?

PerfectlySafeDad
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:57 am

Re: probation officer vs children services

Post by PerfectlySafeDad » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:55 am

At the root of it is they (CS) are over-stretched and incompetent in equal measure, resulting in a need to cover their backs at all costs. They have to be 'seen' to have taken due measures to fulfill their duty of safeguarding, hence the agreement to be signed and their uncertainty - literally that, they don't know what to do, out of their depth on this topic - and dithering over its details. They are attempting to regimentalize something that cannot by its very nature be regimentalized - they way families meet. The result is they create unworkable scenarios, even downright detrimental to the children they think they are protecting. They 'win' by grinding you down with this absurdity and pain creating total estrangement between the spouses (or ex spouses) which gives THEM perfect 'safety', because the wretched offender is shut out totally (regardless of if he is successfully rehabilitating) - unless you can stand up for what you know is right and rational, and achieve the balance between doing that and ticking their boxes.
Misery gives you great advice. Don't sign a damn thing until things are crystal.clear.
Oh yes, it's nice to think they regard you as 'capable of protecting your kids', and you'd think that means you can get on with the business of rebuilding your family and liaising over co-parenting like normal human beings, but... but the trouble is they only regard you as capable if you're doing what THEY say!
Yes, they 'ought' to take their cue from experts such as Probation, but doesn't mean they will, but definitely push such expert assessment in their face (politely of course, don't hurt their feelings) and just in case worse comes to worse make sure you have irrefutable evidence of Probation's assessment to put before a good old Family Court judge (who can be as stupid and unfair as the CS).
Also, I'd say if there's technically no agreement between you for the moment (as sounds the case), then get on with your lives as you please and sod them. A tad risky maybe, but if you do it quietly and discretely - kind of a 'need to know' basis - you can gently remind them (or a judge) of their dithering or indeed plain ignoring you, if they later want to give you trouble over liberties you have taken.

mva17
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:55 am

Re: probation officer vs children services

Post by mva17 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:18 am

keep trying to contact the children services for an explanation on the agreement, as it was from the short conversation on the phone. So the children services had an email from my child school asking, calls from me, and email from probation officer. Now i had a email from school, they saying that they allocated as a social worker but she is on training this week and on leave next week. so when she come back she will reassess the family situation. And that for the moment i should stick to the agreement. I feel very disappointed, first because how can be an agreement if i didn't sign it, second because how long take a phone call to explain that to me?. so now i need to wait until she comes back and decide?

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: probation officer vs children services

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:37 am

Hello

You shouldn't be left in limbo - I would take this to your SW's manager and also consider whether you wish at this stage to initiate a formal complaint. You are asking for clarification you should not be fobbed off. You need to know where you stand. I would also request contact (email addresses of both the SW's manager and the senior manager) details. This way you will be able to blind CC these into any subsequent emails. BCC - is directly under CC when you start writing an email it means the person you send initial email to can not see who you have copied in.

If they will not give you email addresses - all you will need are the managers names and use the same details of SW email just change the name. If you are not sure of spelling? Have a look at your county's web page. Names should be on there. Or alternately ask them to spell them which would be quicker route...

I hope this helps?

mva17
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:55 am

Re: probation officer vs children services

Post by mva17 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:11 am

Very confused about the whole children service situation. In one hand they claim to do everything to safeguard the children and in other hand they seem to cover their backs. Maybe one day they explain to me why they work like this. I feel sad and alone in the whole process. I know things take time but life goes on and will be nice to have more support. i think the children services works in a way that people are scared of asking for help, and shouldn't be like that.

Miserylovescompany2
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: probation officer vs children services

Post by Miserylovescompany2 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:38 am

To be honest it is safeguarding gone mad. Every child is a potential victim until proven otherwise. Yes, it is more about covering their own back than actually giving support to parents. They say they are there for only the child(ren). Well without parents you wouldn't have children. It has come down to simply ticking their boxes. Plus they will go for the cheapest option - long term support for parents will come from a different budget then if your child was looked after.

People are frightened to seek support. Because asking for support gets twisted into "the parent is not coping" or worse "the parent is mentally unstable."

If CS spent time and money on actually supporting the parents then we would all be better off. Copious amounts of money is wasted on courts, solicitors, barristers and meetings about discussing the exact same thing that was said in the previous one!

I asked for support over 10 years ago as both my boys have autism and complex needs. Now one is in the care system being told he can't come home because of his own behaviour. I was being told last year that he could never return home because I couldn't keep him or his siblings safe? They change the goal posts to suit themselves. As long as they get to point the finger of blame on someone...

Sorry - I seem to of gone off on a rant :/

mva17
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:55 am

Re: probation officer vs children services

Post by mva17 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:54 am

i can understand that children services only want the safeguarding of the children. But to be honest doesn't feel like it. we should, as a parent, trust their judge, but it is very difficult when you see only a impersonal letter. if they think my husband shouldn't see the kids in their own house, they should be able to explain why. and be more practical. i feel alone all the way...i know it isn't their fault, but i can believe my husband was sentenced in September an i only got a short phone call after me trying to find out. i should complain but i don't have the energy.

Post Reply