I want to marry a sex offender

Shaftesbury
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I want to marry a sex offender

Post by Shaftesbury » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:08 pm

I have three children and my ex brought out an order to prevent my SO partner having any contact with any of them until they are 18. My children were on a child protection plan for 2 years until my file was closed 2 years ago.

My partner comes off the Register in 2 months time.

We have been seeing each other (away from the children) for five years now and we would like to get married.

We do not intend on living together while I still have children under my roof but we would really love to have some sort of relationship at least. It has been very difficult this far, only meeting up every couple of months because we live at opposite ends of the country.

Please could somebody help me with the following questions:

- When my partner comes off the Register would I be able to alter the court order to give him limited supervised contact with my children? So he could at least come round for dinner, for example, while the children were in the house?

- Would the fact we were married give him rights if having absolutely no contact with the children meant having absolutely no contact with his wife? Would we maybe then be able to alter the order to give him a little supervised access?

Basically I am wondering if us being married and him being off the sex offenders register will mean we could return to court to alter a prohibited steps order which currently says he cannot have any access at all with any of my children.

Thank you.

PerfectlySafeDad
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Re: I want to marry a sex offender

Post by PerfectlySafeDad » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:58 am

Hi Shaftesbury, I'm not a legal expert of any kind, but I have done a lot of reading about sex offender prohibition orders and social services involvement, etc, because of my own situation. In your partner's case, you should have no worries in theory. I read somewhere that once a person is off the register they should be treated no differently to any other person, which means daily contact with their own children or partner's children or children in public even. A sexual harm prevention order or conditions of some kind can only be imposed by a court, and if there is none then there is supposedly 'no danger' therefore social services should abide by that - but will they? That is a different matter. They do appear to think they are above the law at times and they'll do their best to find risk if they are aware of your situation. The key is probably to make sure your partner has given no causes at all - not even the tiniest - for concern lately, and when he comes off the register. You should then be able to tell the social services basically to ---- off, and if they want to make trouble for you they would have to apply to a court, but they would have no ammunition if your partner has served his time on the register and done nothing wrong since. Best of luck.

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: I want to marry a sex offender

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:13 pm

Dear Shaftesbury,

I do not agree with PerfectlySafeDad's view that coming off the sex offenders register will make your partner automatically safe to be with your children. However, due to the support your partner may have received over the years and no further abuse incidents, he may be much less risky.

Has he been risk assessed recently? If so, what does the assessment say? Has any assessment indicated whether or not he needs further support? What about you? Have you had any support around protecting your children? Depending on your children’s age, have they completed any self- protection work? This would involve them being made aware of your partner’s crime and what signs of abuse to look out for.
The Lucy Faithfull foundation can help. Have a look at their Parents Protect website.

You ask whether your partner would get more rights to contact with your children, if he was married to you.
No, marriage to you, in itself, would not give him more rights in respect of your children.

The way forward, and for your own piece of mind, would be for your partner to be risk assessed and these assessments be considered by children services where your children live.

Best wishes,

Suzie

DD2SS
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Re: I want to marry a sex offender

Post by DD2SS » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:07 pm

Perhaps to add a bit to this too, a sexual offence will always be a relevant conviction when it comes to child protection, regardless of whether or not the ex-offender is on the SOR or has another court order imposed or not. Exactly how Children's Services might be informed (or not) of the conviction is another matter once the offender is no longer under scrutiny.

However, in your case, the problem is that you have a Prohibited Steps Order in place. So, you would need to return that to court to have it amended. Presumably your ex would challenge that. That would mean the court would re-assess the case with Cafcass involvement, and presumably your own case would be that circumstances have changed by virtue of time elapsed, a spent conviction and no longer on the SOR, marriage, and any other relevant rehabilitation measures. As Suzie says, the court will want to understand the risk environment not only in terms of the ex-offender, but also you as a protective factor and the children's understanding and ability to protect themselves. Depending on what pieces of this jigsaw are in place, you might want to go and gather additional evidence to support your case such as risk assessments, voluntarily attending courses, etc. Cafcass or the court might conduct their own assessments or seek independent assessments. If you do take this back to court, you might want to consider exactly what it is that you are asking for (i.e., supervised contact or unsupervised contact in its broadest terms rather than specific occasions such as dinner), and I suppose you should be realistic about what is possible in terms of his history and risk profile.

As Suzie also says, marriage in itself does not alter his rights with respect to the children, but it does contribute to his risk status as being in a stable and permanent relationship is in itself protective against reoffending.

Best wishes

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: I want to marry a sex offender

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:25 pm

Dear Freddie

Thanks for your further post.

You are currently in a relationship with a sex offender and believe that your children will not be at any risk with your partner.
The children’s father disagree with your assessment of the situation and children’s services appear to be concerned about your ability to safeguard your children as you are now involved in child protection. It will be of concern to children’s services if you are not seen as able to protect your children or putting your needs and those of your partner before theirs. You may wish to read our advice sheet about child protection procedures.

Has children’s services carried out any risk assessment of your partner themselves, it is very unlikely that they will accept a risk assessment done by someone else unless they requested it.

How long was your partner in prison and how long is he to be on the sex offenders register?

I think you should consider that children’s services role is to safeguard the children so it is important that they look carefully at how best to ensure your children are not exposed to risk and are being brought up in a safe environment. I do hope you will feel able to work with children's services as much as you can to reach a resolution for yourself and your children.

You may wish to contact the Lucy Faithfull Foundation on 0808 100 0900 who can advise you about your current situation and how to protect your children.

Regarding the prohibited steps order, the children’s father could make an application to the court for an order. You would be made aware of the application as a respondent and would have the opportunity to oppose it and explain to the court why you do not think the order is necessary.

I hope you find this helpful but if you wish to peak to an adviser about children’s services involvement with your family, please telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30am to 3pm Monday to Friday.

Best wishes

Suzie

Taylorswift
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Re: I want to marry a sex offender

Post by Taylorswift » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:12 am

Hi. I just wanted to give you a little reassurance. I am in a relationship with a sex offender and we have been together 2 years and are getting married in May next year. My children were on child protection for 12 months but are now off it and are child in need but due to come off that too soon. My experience with social services at first was not good but now I have a good relationship with my social worker and have worked with her. My partner has regular contact supervised by me outside the home with my children, twin girls age 14 and 6 year old girl. We can have contact anytime as long as i text my social worker details so if we need a lift somewhere I text her the time and details or if my daughter is off school and we have plans I text her and this is accepted. It started off as weekly contact but now it is more regular. We have recently had a son together and he is not under social services at all and we have no restrictions on his contact and he can even have his son anytime without my supervision. He was assessed as medium risk as he can't be low risk until he is not on lisence anymore. My ex tried to cause trouble for me at the start but now he has no contact with his children and has given up trying. Social services supported me against him. Contact is due to move to the home soon and Christmas day he was allowed a home visit. Social services are aware of us wanting to get married and have not tried to stop this. All this has come about because we have worked well with them and done everything they have wanted us to do. It has been frustrating at times and taken a while but we are happy with the way things are going now. Each case is different but it can be possible to have a future. Good luck. X

Taylorswift
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Re: I want to marry a sex offender

Post by Taylorswift » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:45 pm

Sorry for the late reply. My partner was convicted of sex with a 14 year old and he got 7 years he served 3 and a half and had been out of prison a year when I met him. He got an extended license so wilm be on license until 2026.
My ex is exactly the same and causing us heaps of trouble. Ss now realise he is a trouble maker and don't entertain him anymore. They followed up on his pathetic false allegation almost weekly and then got fed up of him. The case has now been closed by ss and is managed by probation and my partner comes to the house daily and can stay until midnight but not after. When we are married in 2 months they say we can have overnight stays managed by them so not weekends as the probation office is closed but will eventually be able to move in together by 2020 as my girls will be 16 but will still have a 7 year old girl.
Hope all is going well with you and your case. If you need any help message me.

Taylorswift.

PerfectlySafeDad
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Re: I want to marry a sex offender

Post by PerfectlySafeDad » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:16 pm

Suzie, FRG Adviser wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:13 pm Dear Shaftesbury,

I do not agree with PerfectlySafeDad's view that coming off the sex offenders register will make your partner automatically safe to be with your children. However, due to the support your partner may have received over the years and no further abuse incidents, he may be much less risky.

Has he been risk assessed recently?

Best wishes,

Suzie
A word or two about 'the register': This was brought in in 1997, amended in 2003, when western society's obsession over sex crime was taking off. Like the DBS, it's basically a response to the very worst items of news (such as the Soham murders) which shock the public and lead to an outcry for action. 'We must never let this happen again' kind of thing. Lessons learned and precautions are necessary, of course, but the question is what is proportionate?
The Sex Offender's Register is specifically for police to be able to keep track of offenders during, and for a time after the sentences have been served. The last bit is where it gets contentious, surely, and if you don't at least admit that then you're well on the road to mindless tyranny. Currently, presumably great minds have arbitrarily set the time spans according to the level of conviction:
2 years on the SOR for a caution (which obviously can include any small indiscretion committed by, say a drunken teen).
5 years for a community order (which itself runs to 3 years max).
7 years for a prison (including suspended) sentence of less than 6 months.
10 years for a sentence of more than 6 months.
LIFE (on the SOR) for a sentence of more than 2 years.
Let's not forget SHPOs - if you're on one of those, you're on the register until you can get rid of it - and often they're given for a completely different length of time than the basic sentence (eg an Indefinite SHPO with a 3 year community order, meaning the person has to venture to court often without legal aid to try and get it lifted). Like an insane layer-cake of conditions.
The obvious allegation of this lot is that it takes those amounts of time for an offender to become 'safe' after their sentence itself is finished (ie they've had their punishment and/or corrective work). Put another way, it takes that amount of time to achieve society's 'official forgiveness', to reclaim one's life and soul and be able to have the same living rights as anyone else. Obviously for those who have served 2 years or more of a custodial sentence (no matter how well, or how brilliantly they live their lives thereafter) this means NEVER. As if that's not draconian enough, the social services - as we have all seen - will step in with very considerable life-changing and disruptive measures even beyond this 'safe' (in the eyes of law enforcement itself) period. I'm afraid I honestly don't know who the hell these people think they are; to claim by implication they understand more about whether a person is rehabilitated or not than do the police, criminal courts, many psychology professionals or last but not least people who are intimately in the personal lives of the ex-offender and are prepared to love and trust them. Remember, these 'sex offenders' are very often people who have never actually laid a finger on anyone.
I know who they claim to be; safeguarders, and their stonewall reposte is 'we have a duty to protect..' or that 'no risk can be taken with a child'. Hell's teeth, though, if you can't see the insane and destructive lengths this has gone to..
It's a box-ticking exercise, out of control, run by inconsistent zealous and flawed people, out to cover their backs above anything else.
Actually, it SHOULD be assumed a person is safe once off the register (in reality many are safe long before this), otherwise why the hell trust anyone at all - everybody, criminal record, clean record, spent or not, is a potential abuser who needs 'risk assessing' (yet again) and be subject to the almighty-yet-unfit for purpose social services harassment for pretty much no reason at all. This is the society we've created. It's a moral panic, it's a tyranny. People need to be allowed to make mistakes but be allowed hope of getting back from them.

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Re: I want to marry a sex offender

Post by Suzie, FRG Adviser » Fri May 24, 2019 3:56 pm

Dear Freddie,

I suggest you ask the social worker to set out in writing why she has come to this decision given the previous social worker was advocating that he now have direct contact with your children. As you say, it is a change of plan.

When you receive a written response, you could then challenge the decision by children services complaints procedure. Or seek legal advice from a solicitor who specialises in child care law. They could advise whether children services could successfully pursue a case to remove your children from you.

I know your partner committed sexual offences against women. Is the social worker also worried that he may be sexually violent or domestically violent to you? Not just your children. If so, she may be worried that your children will then suffer the trauma of witnessing you being hurt. Have you been offered support about the effects of domestic violence and sexual violence effects on children?

Children services must believe your children are old enough to know about the crimes your partner committed. If your children are told about his risks, then this may help them be self-protective when he is around. It also opens the dialogue for them to seek protection from you, if they feel in danger. Speak to the Lucy Faithfull Foundation.

What does dad think? Is he worried that your partner is risky to your children? If he thought you were not protecting them, he has the option of seeking a court order for the children live with him.
I hope this helps. If you have any questions, please post again.

Best wishes,
Suzie

PerfectlySafeDad
Posts: 171
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:57 am

Re: I want to marry a sex offender

Post by PerfectlySafeDad » Sun May 26, 2019 4:36 pm

'Apparently I am being a groomed by new partner. Even though he has never actually ever groomed anyone in the past. When they spoke to him They asked him About his Plans for Christmas.'
The social services are very confused on the difference between 'love' and 'grooming'. I'd pity them, if not for the fact their interference is so damn destructive and cruel. The moment any sex offender (indeed 'ex' offender) attempts to establish a new relationship and move on in life, the social services harass it and often completely shut it down because they assume there's something perverse behind it. Quite often, the person the ex offender meets will have had pain of some kind in their own lives and the fundamental reason they're drawn together is because they want to build a new life based on forgiveness, love and trust. Basically, just want to start again and get on with it, but no... the SS stampede into the scene with their suspicion, mania and selfish back-covering zeal.
And what the hell do his plans for Christmas have to do with them??

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