Children starting to become unruly

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Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:38 am

Children starting to become unruly

Post by heartbrokenfather » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:54 pm

Hi All.

I am looking for some help and advice with regards to our children, as at this point in time I have no idea what I can do.

I was unsure of where best to post this, or the best title for it.

For anyone that has not been following my main post, I have been excluded from the family home by the police and children's services since end of November 2013. and our 5 children are still at the family home in the care of my wonderful wife. Ages from 4 to 14.

We are now 10 Months down the line, and it has been and is still continuing to be a very difficult time for all of the family.

As said before my wife is alone looking after 5 children, and I think she is doing the best she possibly can do under the current situation.

My wife and I have been married for 11 years, So I can instinctively tell when something is not right without needing to be told.

But it has been brought to my attention by friends of the family, and indirectly by my wife that in the last few month some of the children are starting to show signs of being unruly.
I only have supervised contact with all the children once a week it's hard for me to pick up on details, but saying that over the last month I have even noticed an attitude change in the two eldest children.
Also in the last week the two eldest children have been excluded from school.

I do not really know in depth what is going on with the children at this point in time, But what I have been told is that the eldest children are being, disobedient, rude, disrespectful, and are swearing a lot.

As said above as I have only been told this, and not heard or witnesses this 1st hand, I can not confirm and or deny what I have been told.

I know that there is not a great deal I can do myself and I am excluded from the family home, But I still want to do whatever I can do to support my wife and children.

My wife is a member here so I am hoping that she will see this post and any of the help and advice given. I will also let her know that I have make this post.

I am not expecting my wife to reply to this post, but only time will tell if she feels able to.

Thanks for your time.

Best Regards.

Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Children starting to become unruly

Post by ange301126 » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:27 am

Dear heartbrokenfather, I am sure you realise that the CS has brought these disasters onto your family. I suggest you prepare yourself for a possible escalation.
If they feel they can convince a court that your wife has lost control of the children, they may ask her to sign an S20 voluntary accomodation agreement.They may tell her it is temporary respite.If she is reluctant, they may threaten legal proceedings.
She can force a court hearing or continue cooperating with the sw's.
I wouldn't sign if I was her, the children's interests are paramount and they will suffer inevitable emotional harm in care. That is the question! Whether or not to tackle the outrageous fortune imposed upon you in a court now or to go along with it and take it all in the hope they will put it all right in the end.You have to bear in mind that family court proceedings are not always fair ones also that much unlawful evidence against you has gained a firm foothold thanks to the CS.
Suzie and your solicitor may well advise you both to continue cooperating.It will be a difficult choice.

In the meantime, regarding the children you have to isolate the ringleader and have a word with him.If it is the eldest,remind him he is the man of the house in your absence; that he has to help Mum and control the others.Another pre-emptive action would be to summon a family conference yourself to include extended family when you can all examine the options as to family support .If the children's needs are provided for by your own support network,IF the CS have illegitimate aims,this might well forestall them. Good luck.

Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:38 am

Re: Children starting to become unruly

Post by heartbrokenfather » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:52 am

Thank you as always for your time and your replies.

I understand fully that all this has been brought on by children's services.
The children have said to my face during contact that the social worker(s) lie, and refuse to answer there questions. I even have written proof of what the children have said regarding the social worker(s) as this is by the children's advocate. and it was included in the last child protection conference paperwork.

And I can fully understand all of the children's anger and frustration at children's services.

As said before my wife has been forced look after all 5 of the children by her self for the last 10 months, as I can not return back home. as well as having to deal with children's services, and any meetings, courses, assessments, that children's services have told my wife that she needs to attend.

I would love to see a single social worker attempt to look after and control all 5 children by them self for even a few hours.

Also as I have said before in my main post, I know for a fact that my wife finds children's services threatening and intimidating, and it has been confirmed by friends of the family that social worker(s) often make threat and or try to intimidate my wife. At this point in time I have no hard proof only hearsay.

My wife has a very very thin line to try and walk, when it comes to dealing with the children and children's services.

I have the up most respect for my wife, and I think under the current situation she it doing the best that she can. I just wish that I was able to do more to help my wife and the children.

During my next contact with all the children, I am going to see if I can talk to the eldest two children in another room about there behaviour. I know that more then likely that children's services are going to frown at me and make negative commits regarding this.

Best Regards.

Posts: 537
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:27 pm

Re: Children starting to become unruly

Post by ange301126 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 9:54 am

Dear Heartbrokenfather, Your wife is in an impossible situation.Can she arrange for some sort of respite privately through family and friends?What are her relations with the eldest child's father like?Are they friendly? Or can one or all of them stay with grandparents for a while if only at a weekend.

I hope you are aware that if your case does go to the family proceedings court eventually,you have no need to produce hard proof of anything! The Local Authorities don't have hard proof of anything.They don't try to enquire into facts scientifically .They have to avoid doing so; to achieve their aims they prefer to present a court with as much false 'hearsay' evidence as they can possibly arrange for.
So you have to follow their example and do likewise.
They are supposed to do an 'in depth' core assessment to examine fully your family background,including all its strengths,how well the children are doing at school,for example.They will not do this,they will simply allude to two of them having been excluded.You have to give evidence (school reports etc) of how well they had been doing before you were compelled to move out and demonstrate the likelihood that the exclusions came about due to you absence.Obviously they were because they happened after the sw interference commenced.You have to present an accurate core assessment and chronology because I doubt if they will.They make theirs up usually.They haven't even consulted you for it,have they?
So,like them, don't worry about hard proof of anything!
Just amass as much evidence as you can and keep it in order.If it goes to court decisions are taken on probabilities.It is impossible for anyone to PROVE their child is not at risk.The concept of 'significant risk of emotional harm' is impossible to define.
They will plonk all their scandalmongering evidence down on one side of the scales and it is your job to put as much as you can on the other.

The problem many of us have is that our solicitors have failed us and not presented all evidence in our favour.Forr example,they will never suggest in court that a social worker has given false evidence because this would be seen as 'uncooperative' thus the court hearings are unfair.
All the rubbish on the L.A. side of the scales overwhelmed ours thanks to our lawyers.

Edited by Suzie in accordance with our rules

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Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 11:48 am

Re: Children starting to become unruly

Post by Madh* » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:52 am

Just like to wish use good look. I am in the same situation as your wife caring for 5 children on your own and know how she most likely feels. It's a very hard situation to be in .

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