SGO CONTACT ISSUES

[CDF56]

Hello
Background our grandchildren have lived with us for 2 years. 1 under SGO, following neglect mum, DV in household both parents and emotional trauma by mum. Dad did not live at the address.
Before SGO was awarded birth father and his family had fortnightly weekend contact which went well and was reliable. During court he agreed to go to one weekend a month to facilitate mother having contact split over two weekends, until such time as she was on a par with dad. He and the family FaceTime the children at least once a week and have a keen interest in their health and schooling. We communicate well both ways on concerns and planning. They have the boys extra in the holidays on request, subject to the boys schedules. The children are always excited to visit and eager to tell us all about it when they get home.
Before SGO contact with mum was sporadic until LA and ourselves began structuring it both at a contact centre with supervision , then in the community with supervision then in contact centre unsupervised and finally in community. Mums sister helped in these transitions. Contact did breakdown several times … most important being threat to not return the children. LA advised us to pause contact until trust could be rebuilt. The SGO states following for contact framework
Week 1 dad weekend contact sat am to sun pm
Week 2 mum 3hrs weekend contact
Week 3 us .. no parental contact (family time)
Week 4 mum 3hrs weekend contact
On weeks mum did not have weekend contact , a 2hr afterschool contact . Mum was to pick up and drop from our home or school addresses.
Contact for mother to be in community or at an agreed location E.g family members home.
To be reviewed by guardians. Mum was warned specifically that any further attempt to disrupt the placement would not be tolerated by judge. We were told by judge we could adjust contact up or down. Dad on the other hand was praised for completing parenting course and establishing reliable contact, including additional FaceTime calls.
(Although it’s not in final order it was noted that it was hoped mums contact would increase over time to become on par with dad I.e. one sat am to sun pm weekend. Guardians would then get two weekends free)
LA and childrens court guardian helped empower us to make decisions on behalf of the children, regarding contact which has been contentious from the start with mum. Children were discharged from CIN shortly after SGO as all boys needs were being met.
One of the children has special educational needs along with physical weaknesses that are being addressed via neurologist, paediatrician, community neurologist disability team, physiotherapy, occupational therapy and a lot of home therapy from us. He has a full time teaching assistant and an EHCP. Both still have triggers associated with their past which manifest in behavioural issues.
Over the last year we have done everything within our power to provide positive parental contact. We have treated both parents equally. ( mum says we favouritise dad and let him do whatever he wants, wherever he wants with who ever he wants but we always know what they are doing and with whom, he lives with his parents so his contact is supervised or supported at all times. They work with us not against us so it works seamlessly) However mum has needed a lot of input on organisation, initiative in planning, arranging activities and she has had another baby in this time. We have had to step in and take boys to and from contact, stay during contact and pay for activities, taken mum on days out, given overnights when she has her sister staying with her. Given extra contact on boys and her birthdays. Invited her for Christmas in our home. Told her she can have the boys this Christmas as long as her sister is there for two nights. Mum does not contact children in between visits and never has pre SGO. At no point has she asked for a review or shown any inclination to plan ahead (still last minute which doesn’t help childrens structure or routine) in fact she was often asking for them to come home early as she had something to do.
Two weeks ago , during school holidays she asked for a complete day 1030 until teatime. We thought this was a good sign and agreed based on plan of picnic at the park, back to her home and McDonald’s tea. She asked to take them to zoo instead. A zoo out of county which is a train,tube and bus away. We said we didn’t feel that was appropriate for her first unsupervised contact in a long time and suggested either of 2 zoos locally within our county by bus. She said the children are bored of them.(unsure how she would know this) as they love both. Then we find out night before she has allegedly booked Out of county Zoo and is taking them with her new boyfriend (children met him once over a year ago, she has since rekindled relationship and he lives with her half the week) we explained again that wasn’t what was agreed and furthermore any new partner needed to be introduced slowly to the boys not a full day. We suggested he be introduced for 15 mins at end of contact the next day and work from there. The boys have attachment/abandonment triggers from mum introducing them to multiple men in the past, being told marriage would happen very shortly afterwards only for that man to disappear again from mums life. This boyfriend is awaiting his entry to army training imminently and so would disappear again. In the end, after a number of arguments she demanded to see them 8-10am and we had to drop and pick them up. She agreed to respect our guidance however my husband took the boys to meet mum at park but she want there. So took boys outside of her home instead. She has since told us the Boyfriend was stood waiting on road. (She has done this before) She made no attempt to take them to the park. The children were then with both for entire visit. She then told my husband she was going on trip anyway hence only 2hrs with boys. She then said she wanted us to reimburse £200 she spent on tickets, even though we gave her number to call to move to another date for Out of countyZoo. We also saw them buy their train tickets so not even sure she had bought tickets ahead of time. We also know Out of county Zoo was priced less than the oddly specific £200. At this point we called her out on the lies about contact, that she had been seen etc and that we no longer had trust in arrangements. That we suggested a contact review meeting to discuss our concerns and to make planned contact schedule to help with childrens schedule (wanted to book afterschool clubs) with both of us. That any increase in contact needed to be planned carefully for the boys. This could be by tel call or in person. Contact was paused until this was in place. We also stated we had no issue with the boyfriend or her private arrangements, as it is the boys we have a duty or care for. We have never been intrusive to her life beyond contact.
We then got into a barage of arguments from her via message. She said we have all the money for boys so should pay for her contact. We have a car so we should pick/drop off to her. We are power playing and playing games with her boys. She has tried to turn close family members on us as well by only telling them parts of the story and not everything, painting herself in a positive light and us negatively. She was their mother and entitled to contact with whoever she wants, whenever she wants and to go wherever she wants. That she was told she would have overnights unsupervised by now, even with new baby. She demanded Thursdays as her afterschool and Sunday nights into Mondays for overnights of which she wanted two weekends (even though she is only supposed to be working towards same as dad) and that would be more than we the family have. Also, we could never agree to Sunday night as we wouldn’t be sure she would get boys to school (she claims she can’t pick up drop from us due to distance and we live ten minutes from their school) She also wanted that at the very least and expected more. She said her social worker was supporting her in taking this to court to revoke the SGO and return them full time to her care. She stated the LA involvement in the new baby was downgraded and her flat was clean and tidy. That her children behave better in her care than with us as all we do is shout at them, live in an untidy, unclean home and slap them in front of screens all the time. (The children have said that mum doesn’t tell them off or set any rules. That when they asked for help toileting she remained in bed and told them to do it themselves, even though one child can’t physically reach his back due to frozen shoulders. We only state this as the children instantly told us on their return, so was obviously a worry for them.) She also stated there was no evidence for the childrens needs (even though we have folders full and have taken both boys to multiple appointments which are ongoing and if she had shown any care of their schooling would know one child has EHCP high level with full time teaching assistant and is held back an academic year on chronological age.) she states we must have lots of money as my husband had recently changed to a part time job after taking redundancy from a full time shift work position due to long covid. Actually this makes our finances very tight, especially in cost of living crisis. I also have long covid with breathing difficulties that are slowly resolving 6 months on but she has seen my lack of presence as me not wanting to have anything to do with her. She is refusing to speak to me ever again even though I am the childrens main carer. Plus, if anything happens to my husband or our marriage ends (her father) the children remain in my care, as agreed with LA, childrens court guardian and barristers. She is unaware of this we believe. This then just kept escalating with more threats, more accusations and an attempt to blackmail my husband over something that had the potential to end our marriage. ( he has discussed with me and we are still together and standing strong as an unit) at this point we decided to draw a line and stop contact entirely as her behaviour had become so erratic and irrational. It was stopped based on her refusal to talk to us productively about forward contact and therefore our mistrust that she would stick to arrangements in the future, following recent contact. However, her sister asked if she could take boys to mini golf the following weekend with mum there in a larger group. We agreed as we were sure arrangements would be as outlined, we have always encouraged wider family contact and felt it was a good compromise. She refused to return the childrens souvenir and favourite hoodies which were accidentally left in pram by auntie. Even when auntie went to her address to collect them. She stated we would get them back when she saw the children. Yet again though we have now been met with when can I see my children?
We’ve again outlined our reasoning that a talk is needed before contact can resume, that we are following SGO, we are treating both parents equally. We’ve even offered to talk to her social worker instead, if she doesn’t want to attend a talk with us both. She flatly refused as she is her social worker. We understood that but were just trying to reach out and compromise. It has become very contentious again, with all the same patterns of behaviour seen pre SGO. At the heart of the matter is she doesn’t accept any responsibility for events that culminated in the children being given into our care by LA., so she doesn’t understand the SGO or it’s relevancy. She therefore doesn’t accept we are enabled to alter contact based on the boys best interests. We’ve tried to explain that we have parental role now and must act in the boys best interests. However we also have a duty of care for them so need to be assured contact arrangements are as they were planned and that she will return them home. Obviously things come up and days may need altering from either side.
Our belief is that she first needs to ask the courts permission to apply to revoke SGO and needs to show a sustained change in circumstances that the judge agrees/disagrees with. We also believe we have done beyond what is outlined in the SGO and enabled as much positive contact as possible(above and beyond SGO contact outline). We believe we have offered every compromise we can think of and are happy to justify our decision in court if required. Do we need to notify LA even though they have no involvement with children or family anymore? We just want to make sure we are covering everything we need to. Every mediation meeting ever held by LA, mediator and so on pre SGO she has either refused to attend or walked out five minutes in as soon as she disagrees. So it’s hard to know how to break the deadlock. Any advice welcome.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear CDF56

Welcome to the Kinship Carers’ forum and thank you for your post. My name is Suzie and I am Family Rights Group’s online adviser.

I am sorry to hear of the difficulties that you and your family are experiencing. I am also sorry to hear that you are experiencing long covid and hope that you will recover well soon.

From the information that you have provided I can see that you and you husband are caring very well for your two grandsons, that you are committed to their needs and aware of the impact of their past history on this.

You also demonstrate an accurate understanding of your role as a Special Guardian and the responsibilities that also come with this including in ensuring that any contact between children and their parents is safe and in the children’s best interests. It seems that contact with the children’s father is very positive but their mother’s contact is very problematic. You have described the effort you have made to support the children to have contact with their mother but there have been situations where she has not complied or has not worked with you to allow their time together to be safe and positive.

Recently you have had to suspend contact until the children’s mother is willing to discuss your concerns with you and work with you to set up a new arrangement.

I can see that the children’s mother has had a new baby whom she has been able to care for which is positive. But this does not mean that she would be able to /or that the court would agree to her caring for the boys again as the court decided that you and your husband are the right people to provide them with the care and stability that they need in order to flourish.

The children’s mother has now indicated that she may take the case back to court in order to apply to revoke the SGO. You are right that the court would need to give her permission first in order for her to apply to end the order. The grounds for this are that :

• There has been a “significant change of circumstances” since the special guardianship order was made, and
• There is a chance that the application to end the order will be successful, and it is in the child’s best interests for the application to be heard.

So it would be up to the court to decide if these criteria were met.

It might be that she will want to apply for a Child Arrangements Order (CAO) for contact if she is unsuccessful in applying to end the order.

You mention that mediation has been unsuccessful in the past but the children’s mother would need to offer this prior to applying for a CAO for contact.

You don’t have to notify Children’s Services but you can if you wish. If the children were Looked After prior to the SGO being made they should have assessed your support needs and drawn up a support package drawn to help with difficulties such as contact. You could ask that they help you and the children’s mother reach an agreement about contact that is right for the children.

You may find it useful to review our Special Guardianship Advice Sheets.

If the children’s mother applies to the court and you need specific legal advice on this you can contact Child Law Advice or a solicitor specialising in this area. Please see here for contact details.

I hope that everything works out for you and your grandchildren.

If you need to post back please do or you can call our freephone advice on 0808 8010366; the lines are open Mon to Fri (except bank holidays) between 9.30 am and 3.00 pm.

Best wishes

Suzie

[CDF56]

We hold a SGO as grandparents for our two grandsons. Contact with dad and paternal grandparents is working fluidly and successfully progressing. Contact with mum has always been fractious and disjointed with communication difficulties.
We received a letter from a new legal firm addressed solely to my husband, even though we hold the SGO jointly. It had been opened by another household then posted in our box. We were very concerned as envelope did not state private and confidential and had the boys names and our address. We felt this was a potential safeguarding issue and breach of privacy.
The letter states that mum wants to have more contact and wants to apply for a CAO, as we are not progressing contact. It does also state that they advised mediation first and have sent an application off. We have been told to expect contact from them and were offered to contact her solicitor directly as well. It stated she had good grounds to apply to court.
Our concerns are that mum has painted a completely fabricated version of contact issues as well as her not understanding what the SGO is and appears to want to move to ever greater contact towards reunification. She has had 2 more children with 2 new fathers one of which has no contact with her and one of whom currently resides with mum. So obviously sibling contact is now in the mix.
SGO stated
Week 1 dad weekend with overnight
Week 2 mum 3hrs contact weekend
Week 3 family weekend I.e. with us
Week 4 mum 3hrs contact weekend
Plus guardian asked that boys have afterschool 2hrs once a week on the two weeks mum has no weekend contact
This has progressed and regressed with periods of paused contact due to breakdown in communications and negative impact on boys to
Week 1 dad weekend plus at least weekly FaceTiming to keep in contact with boys
Week 2 mum has the boys on Sundays but for a whole day , although timings are never organised in advance and we have to help facilitate transport.
Week 3 family weekend
Week 4 mum has the boys in Sunday for a whole day , although timings are never organised in advance and we have to facilitate transport.
Afterschool once a week on a Thursday (we insisted on determining a set day as the boys now have afterschool clubs to attend) it is supposed to be until 6pm with mum feeding boys now but often it is unorganised in advance and we facilitate transport.
We offered at mediation with social services the following:
Mum swaps to one full weekend a month including overnight akin to dads contact and afterschool visits until 6pm with food once a week on weeks she does not see them at weekend.
Or stay as alternate Sundays but stick to schedule of 9-10am until 6pm with two meals provided.
We also said she could FaceTime the boys anytime to keep upto date with their interests, achievements and contact but after about two calls she ceased providing this which led to confusion for the boys.
Mum was at this time asking for half a week plus two weekends plus extra afterschool visits which is totally unrealistic and would confuse the boys as to whose home is their primary parental home I.e. us. It would also impact both our and dads quality time as well as the boys clubs and homework etc one of the boys has global developmental delay and needs a high level of supervision and additional assistance with home physical and occupational therapy and schoolwork/reading support at home. Mum does not have the required aids to assist with this, or the training.
Mum has recently asked the school for a copy of the EHCP and attended school to discuss the boys. This does not reflect any level of genuine want to help the boys as she has been very hands off their health and educational needs and still refutes the genetic results and diagnosis of the boys. We believe this was purely an attempt to show interest for a legal framework. Mum now would be supervising 4 children at contact whereas SGO contact was arranged framework around just the 2 boys. Mum also has known ongoing mental health issues as does her new partner and we feel this impacts what we can offer whilst being mindful of contact remaining positive and safe for the boys.
We were left in the SGO as being able to up or down contact as we felt were in best interests of boys. Mum was also told not to jeopardise this placement in any way.
We feel like we should refuse mediation as we have offered our solution options both before,during and after SGO and we feel it reflects the boys best interests balanced with family time, time for socialising with friends at afterschool clubs , schoolwork and additional therapy needing completing at home. We have offered overnights in holidays and the boys spent 2nts/3days over Xmas at mums (this is rotated between 3 households each year). We also often to the detriment of family time make sure she sees them every birthday including her own and the siblings. We invite her on day trips with boys.
So at this point and being exhausted from constantly having to badger mum to forward plan e.g. who collects from school. Who brings boys home from contact , which legs she needs transport help, help paying for activities, whether they will need a meal from us after contact etc which all adds stress and upsets family time at home as well. Also contending with nasty messages about how she thinks we have safeguarding issues for this and that, our house is dirty and untidy, going to report us to social services, going to court, I want them back, you’ve taken my boys away from me , they want to see me more and live with me ( she doesn’t seem to understand of course the children will say that to please her and because she is giving them confused and eratic messages. She shouldn’t even be talking to them about this as we are all supposed to work as a cohesive team in the boys best interests. Tried to break our marriage apart more than once) we just feel a court order may be the only way to go, even if it doesn’t fit our parameters.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear CDF56

Welcome back to the kinship carers’ discussion board. Thank you for your post.

I am sorry to hear that contact between your grandsons and their mother is still very challenging.

You have continued to care for the children throughout and have put forward proposals to reflect what you think would work best for the boys. You describe how you have encountered a lot of negativity from the children’s mother. You are also worried that she is giving the children mixed messages.

You have engaged with mediation via children’s services but unfortunately this has not resolved matters.

The children’s mother has now offered mediation via a letter from her solicitor as she is seeking more contact. She intends applying to court for a Child Arrangements Order for contact if this is not resolved.

You are in a dilemma and are thinking about not agreeing to mediation but progressing to court for the court to decide on the arrangements. Mediation can be very useful even in the most difficult circumstances so it is worth considering carefully. Also as you are worried that the children’s mother is intending applying for permission to end the SGO in the future it may be good to try to reach a solution about contact arrangements, if that is possible. I would suggest that you get specific legal advice on this from one of the following agencies who provide this type of private law advice:

Child Law Advice Family Line

Rights of Women

A solicitor

Perhaps some of the kinship carers on this forum may also have some advice to share with you, from their experience and perspective.

I hope this is useful.

Please post back if you have any further queries.

I hope that everything works out.

Best wishes

Suzie

[Robin D]

I would add our experiences of mediation.

1. We were very cynical to begin with, but to be fair to the mediator, they played with a straight bat. Unfortunately our daughter saw mediation as giving her the power to tell us what we should be doing, and refused to budge one iota on her ridiculous demands, that were all about her needs, not the needs of her children.
The matter was already in the courts, and one thing that surprised me is that, apart from saying that mediation had been attempted without agreement, nothing that was said in the meeting was admissible in the subsequent case. Nor do you get a report from the mediator.

2. Different case and child. After the above incident some years earlier I was even less hopeful it might deliver something, but went along with it. Completely different process and outcome. While this Mum at first seemed as immovable as on the other occasion, the mediator took her and us into different rooms to talk through the issues first. He revealed that mum had concerns that had not previously been expressed to us, (But had told to the SW who had said nothing!!!!) and as we were then able face to face to provide reassurance and guarantees, it allowed both sides to come to an agreement that worked best for the child.

Personally, if in a similar situation I would go through it again, on the proviso that someone has explained properly to the other party that the outcome is likely to be a compromise. If either party thinks it's about 'power' to get what they want, it will not work. Having the mediator listen to each side first made a huge difference, as they were able to take the sting and anger out of the presentation of concerns.

Hopefully this is of some assistance.