Who has the rights?

[HG2022]

Hi All.
My sister passed away this year of cancer, she was only 40, she has left behind two young girls under 12, in hospice she asked us to look after them, she said she put it in writing with a solicitor and they were returning with it for her to sign, but she passed away two days after, she has 5 children, 3 are all adults odest is 28, otger two are 22 and 20.
They living with the 22 year old as she lived with her mother as did the two under 12 year olds, now the two under 12years olds hate living with this sibling as they smoke drugs and don't feed them regularly and is always sleeping, the under 10 person gets taken to school by the under 12 and collected, they come and stay with us every now and then and always look dirty and smell of weed as the 22 year old smokes it like normal cigarettes, the other two older siblings are not happy with how the two under 12s are being treated at home, as no one has custody is the 28 year old able to remove them from the home life they live in now, they cry when they have to go home from us, none of us know how we stand, but there's under 12s need saving.
Hope somone can tell us what rights the other sibling has
The father has had no contact with the under 12s as he was kicked out 8 years ago as he did things to a under 10 year old for a few years and was taken to crown court. But not enough evidence so walked free, my sister hid these under 12s from him but since she died, social services contacted him without talking to and of the family about it.
We really don't know what to do about it all.

What can we do

[Robin D]

The only people with "rights" are the children. Others may have responsibilities. There is a huge difference.

Are you or an older siblings, able and willing to take on the children? If so, move them in with you or one of the older sisters and tell social services you have done it for the children's safety.

Do you know who the solicitor was? If so, contact them and confirm your understanding of your sisters wishes, preferably in writing if they will do so.

Once the children are with you, (or one of the older sisters) then SS should help you or her as they are children in need.

Ultimately someone will need an order giving them PR, but sorting out the long term plan is the priority in my mind.

If you and the two older siblings can agree a plan, there is little SS can do apart from go along with and support it. If you cannot agree between the adults ask SS for a family group conference.

The two children are old enough to have their views heard.

If it gets difficult, find a solicitor locally on the children panel and ask if they will represent the children.

Avoid at all costs the Local Authority taking care proceedings.

Good luck .. Robin

[HG2022]

Thank you Robin.
So if the girls say they want to live else where and not with the sibling they live with, can they stop them from going as she tells them all the time that she can stop them seeing us or any other family, also tells then she will never forgive them and they will never see there cousin again.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear HG2022

Welcome to the kinship carers’ discussion forum and thank you for posting..

My name is Suzie, online adviser at Family Rights Group. I am sorry for the loss of your sister and the concerns you now have for your young nieces. You would like to know the legal position regarding where they live and who can make the decision about this.

The children are currently living with an older sister in the family home, but this is not ideal as they are not receiving appropriate care from their sister.

You have had some good advice from another poster regarding the children’s situation. I will be adding further to that advice in this post.

Firstly, it is important that you decide as a family the best way to safeguard the children and ensure they are well looked after and attend school. The 22-year-old sister with whom they are living now has no legal basis on which to make decisions about her sisters. Unless the father’s name is on the children’s birth certificate or he was married to their mother, he does not have parental responsibility for them and so not in a position to make decision.

It may also be helpful for you to discuss your concerns about the father’s background with children’s services. If had not been in touch with the children for such a long time, not clear from your post how children’s services were able to contact him.

Secondly, if the father does not have parental responsibility, then someone in the family yourself or one of the older sisters either jointly or separately can apply to the court for a child arrangement order for the children to live with you. Under the child arrangement order, if granted, that person would have parental responsibility.

As the children’s father has been contacted by children’s services (the new name for social services), he could challenge the application and ask for the children to live with him. However, the court would require reports to be prepared by Cafcass or children’s services considering the children’s wishes as well as the welfare checklist here and a recommendation about where the children should live. The father’s background and his lack of contact with the children would be an important factor to consider as well. Parental responsibility would be shared equally under a child arrangement order.

There is another order a special guardianship order which would also give the person in whose favour the order is made parental responsibility. If the father has parental responsibility this order would give the special guardian a higher level of parental responsibility which they can exercise exclusively.

If you do decide to make an application to the court you may find this information about child arrangement orders and special guardianship order special guardianship order. You can also seek advice from Child Law Advice on 0300 330 5480 as they advise on private law matters.

Should you wish to speak to one of our experienced advisers you can telephone our free confidential advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30am to 3pm Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie

[HG2022]

Hi Suzie,
Thank you for the information,we just had the girls all weekend, and they really didnt was to go home, regarding the contacting of the farther, we have no idea how they found him, my sister kept them off grid as such, and didn't want there dad knowing anything, she even told the schools they go to to blur out the faces in any photos online or in papers, so we was so shocked when the girls said there social lady contacted daddy and arrange for a meet up.
Then a few weeks after they met him, the social lady left and the girls have a new one now, we asked the lady to visit the girls round ours, but declined saying I know they are happy with you as they told me.
We chatted to the girls over the weekend saying they have the right to decide where they want to live, they are so scared of the sister, they want to leave her but scared she will talked them out making them feel bad, I did say they don't have to face her once they make up there minds who to live with, was also worried about their belongings.
And the dad let them down again, he let them down 4 times out of 6 arrangements.
Poor girls keep getting let down by people, we are they only ones who stick to seeing them every two weeks for the weekend.
Would child care services be able to do a surprise visit.
Thank you again for your time.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear HG2022,

Thank you for your further post.

You ask if children’s services would be able to do a ‘surprise’ visit. They would only do what’s called an ‘unannounced visit’ if they had concerns that the children might be at risk of harm and they were carrying out child protection enquiries.

As I advised previously, I think it is really important that you make sure children’s services are fully aware of your concerns about both the sister who is caring for the children, and their father. I would suggest that you send your concerns in writing to children’s services (rather than just speaking over the phone) if you haven’t already.

It may also be a good idea to suggest to the children that they speak with a trusted member of staff at their school about what is going on and where they would like to live. The school should raise any safeguarding concerns with children’s services and can also pass on the children’s concerns.

I hope that this is of some help.

Best wishes,
Suzie

[HG2022]

Regarding the above, called social services as things are not good for the girls, told them we had proff of everything going on, how we fear for there Safty and health, and they told us there is nothing they can do as girls seam happy when they see them with the abusive sibling and the case was closed,
We are total shocked with this and my wife was in tears talking the them about videos we get sent etc. And to be told that we can't do a thing.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear HG2022

Thank you for your further post. I can see that you are still worried about your two nieces and this is distressing for you and your wife.

As the case is now closed to children’s services who state that they are satisfied about the girls’ welfare, you can consider making a formal complaint as you disagree with their assessment of the girls’ situation. Making a complaint is the only way to get children’s services’ to review their decision. As you are not their parent or carer, you would need to explain that you are family members who have a significant interest in the girls’ welfare, which entitles you to make a complaint if dissatisfied with children’s services’ response. Please see our more detailed complaints advice here.

If you have any new serious concerns about the children’s welfare and safety then you should make a new referral to children’s services or contact the NSPCC helpline to report your concerns.

As recommended in my previous response, it is also a good idea to ensure that the girls know that they can discuss any worries with a trusted member of staff at school (the school will refer to children's services if there are safeguarding concerns). You can also make sure that they have Childline’s details (freephone 0800 1111) if they need help, support or to talk to an independent person about their situation.

The other option, as discussed in an earlier response, is that you could consider offering mediation to the sibling carer and if necessary then applying to the family court for a court order if you wanted to ask the court to decide if the children should come to live with you. I am reposting that information as it may be helpful to you:

If you do decide to make an application to the court you may find this information about child arrangements order (CAO) and special guardianship orders (SGO) helpful.

You can also seek advice from Child Law Advice on 0300 330 5480 as they advise on private law matters .

I hope this helps.

If you have any further queries about children’s services please do post again or call our freephone advice line 0808 8010366 to discuss the situation with an adviser. Our lines are open from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 pm, Mon to Fri (except bank holidays).

Best wishes

Suzie

[HG2022]

Thank you for the information, the girls are so scared to talk to teachers or social workers as they so worried there sister will find out, one teacher already spoke to the sister after the little sister said she unhappy at home, I had a message from one of them this morning saying they are not to contact me anymore and she making them delete my phone number from there phones, she ended with plesse tell no one I sent this