Need advice.

[little angel]

Hi,thank you for adding me to this group. I need some advice about my daughter.
My daughter and granddaughter both live with me and my husband, she was involved with social services from 2011 until September 2013, her gaughter was put on the at risk register and had a public protection order because of her ex-partner who is a sex offender. My daughter and granddaughter where taken off of all these as they are living with us.anyway to cut a long story short I was wondering if any can put may mind at rest, the thing is my daughter has gone at got herself pregnant again by someone she met on internet,which I am not happy about. The thing is will social services find out or would we have to tell then,its only been five months since she come off everything and I am worried because they will find out that she hasn't learned anything from the last time , she thinks its OK and they aren't going to do anything. So now she will have to children with men that aren't very good father figure's. She can only cope now because she's living with us and I do must of everything. Hope someone can give me some advice.thanks worried nan.

[little angel]

Thank you for your reply,sorry didn't realise this,just wanted some advice and didn't no who to ask.Thank you.

[little angel]

Hi again, just wondering what to do. My daughter has had her booking appointment for midwife. She has come back and said the midwife will not be letting social service's know that she is pregnant again as she is no longer on there books. I am still concerned about this and don't no what to do. She has also said she is thinking of moving out with our granddaughter, what worries me is she still doesn't do anything for her, she is not with this bloke but still stays at his place a couple of times a week.just not sure what to do .hope some one can help as I am stressing over this and my husband has already said that he will not let our granddaughter leave.so need advise,thank you.

[Robin D]

I hate to be blunt, and there is no perfect answer, but if you really feel your granddaughter would be at real risk by being removed from your home, you have a duty of care to protect the child.

However, should you take this action, as soon as possible afterwards you must:
a) Contact the local authority to tell them what you have done and why.
b) Contact a solicitor who is in the children's panel for advice on next steps.
and if the timing is wrong, or the situation gets ugly, you may need to call the police. They will try to negotiate a settlement, but if they can't they have the legal power to take action to protect the child if they (not you) believe they are at risk of significant harm. This may mean removing them to a place of safety. The wording is 'If a police constable believes that a child is at risk of suffering significant harm in a particular situation then he may exercise powers under this Act to remove the child to suitable accommodation or if the child is in hospital or in a place of safety, take steps to keep the child there.'

The real difficulty is determining when the threshold of 'significant' harm has been, or will be crossed. However, given the history of the case and the earlier concerns, providing you were acting reasonably, I can't see the powers to be objecting.

Good luck .... Robin

[little angel]

Thankyou Robin.
I understand what your saying but I am not sure if my daughter is just saying she's moving out to get back at me as I made it clear I wasn't happy about her getting pregnant again. We told social services at all the meetings before that we would do anything to protect our grandaughter. I thought that because she was on social services books before that they would need to know.It was a very diffecult and stressful time for the 18 months that we went through with her ex- partner. I never thought that she would go down this road again but she thinks that its all OK because social services don't need to no.I no I have a lot to think about. Thank you for replying Robin.

[David Roth]

You wrote that "My daughter and granddaughter where taken off of all these [child protection plan] as they are living with us".

Are you sure that this was the basis for your granddaughter being perceived as no longer in need of a child protection plan? Because if so, then there's a good chance the local authority will be interested and possibly concerned if your daughter decides to move out with her child from your home. Also, your daughter would surely be aware that the reason for the plan being removed was that she and her daughter were living with you, and moving away from you would be likely to arouse interest from social workers.

If she does decide to stay on with you, then it might be best to try to get to know the father of the baby she is expecting. Finding a partner over the internet is not necessarily a bad thing - a lot of national newspapers now have dating websites to help people to find partners and go on dates. If your daughter is going to have this man's baby, and stay on living with you, then it might be preferable if the baby's father could be involved.

Of course, it could all be as bad as you fear, with regard to the baby's father, but it could be worth giving him a chance.

[little angel]

Thankyou David for your reply. My daughter always told social sservices that she was living with us long term,they did say before that if she wasn't living with us then things would've been very different. I have told my daughter that if she does move out then I am phoning social services , but she doesn't seem to care and thinks that because they have taken her off everything that's its nothing to do with them.Its not that I have a problem with internet dating because I haven't, I have known and have read successful stories about internet dating. Its who my daughter hooks up with and their life style that worries me.This man is well known in my area, and also to the police.I would give any one a chance, but knowing my daughter is not in a relationship with this man but still goes and stays with him, this worries me but I can't seem to get my daughter to understand what she's doing isn't right.I don't think social services would be very happy about this man being around my grandaughter after them telling her she has to make sure she protects her daughter at all times.I am worrying because I am not sure how this is going to end.

[David Roth]

little angel, from what you have said, if you want your granddaughter to be kept safe, and to be able to stay in the family in the event that she cannot remain with her parents, then I do not think you have any option but to keep the authorities informed of the risks she is being exposed to.

Of course, there is a danger this could set your daughter against you, particularly if it ends up with your granddaughter coming to stay with you, and your daughter blames you for her removal (even although it would be social workers who would apply for the court order and the court who would make the decision to grant it). However, for your own peace of mind, in knowing you've done what you can to keep the child safe, and to show the authorities that you are willing to work with them, you would have to keep them informed, and then deal with the consequences for your relationship with your daughter.

I do know this can be horribly difficult. Most family and friends carers do say that the most difficult part of it is dealing with the parents, while bringing up the child is the most rewarding. (I do say most, there are some exceptions of course.)

[little angel]

Hi, I know I haven't been on here since last August. Needing advice again, as u know I explained about my daughter an granddaughter and here expecting another baby. She had the baby in January, e have had nothing but problems from the babies father, which ended up with the police being called because of his threats. They told us they would be speaking to social services. The health visitor knew all that was going on but know one said anything. The problem my husband and I have now is my daughter has just got a flat with council, she has no money no furniture and she will be moving in three weeks or so. She still doesn't doing anything with her daughter, I do everything and she still sleeps in our bedroom. I have asked my daughter to start doing everything for her as she is going to find it very difficult to move with her. She starts nursery next week also. She knows something wrong and is getting tearful. I know my daughter isn't going to be able to get up once she has moved to take her. This worries me as she is very lazy. She is still having the wrong men in her life, which is another worry for my granddaughter. I'm so worried for both my grandchildren I am not sure what to do. I asked my daughter how she going to get her 3 year old to settle in a strange place, her reply was she get over it. That upset me as I know my granddaughter is going to find it very hard as she is so close to me and my husband. We really finding this very difficult as we can't have an adult conversation with my daughter over this matter.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear little angel

Welcome back to the Family and Friend’s Forum and do not worry that you have not been here for a while.

My name is Suzie and I am one of the Advisers at Family Rights Group.

I am sorry that you are having such a worrying time about your grandchildren and the fact that your daughter may not be able to cope once she moves out of your home.

You have not said in your post whether Children Services became involved with your daughter again. If they did and thing stayed the same because she is living with you, then if your daughter is now moving out and you are concerned about your granddaughter, you need to consider whether Children Services should be informed of the proposed move.

The difficulty now is that, if as you say, your daughter does not look after her daughter now, and you are worried what will happen when she moves, she will not be able to cope and this might lead to a referral to Children Services. If they become involved then the whole process of enquiries may well come about again. How is your daughter managing looking after the baby? Is she able to cope with baby? It may be that she has just left you to look after the older child because that’s what you have always done.

It is not clear from your post how old your daughter is but it seems to me important that takes on the responsibility of being a mother. Of course, you should be there to support her in looking after the children but will need to learn how to cope. You have described your daughter moving out as a problem for you and your husband and I do understand why. However, you want to look at this front a different point of view, that you daughter is ready to have her own home. Maybe your daughter does very little because you are there and do it for her.

Having said this, I understand your concern for your granddaughter who is very close to her grandparents. I think it is important that you try to have a conversation with you daughter about your concerns. You should say what is worrying you and why. Give her the opportunity to explain her point of view rather than simply telling her that she will not be able to cope.

Do you think that when your daughter moves out she will not allow your granddaughter to see you or spend time with you? You have been very supportive of your daughter and she is likely to still need your help and support. Will your daughter be moving a long way from you?

If your daughter does not have furniture to move into her new home, there are organisations that may be able to help with this. Your daughter will be able to claim benefits for herself and the children and it is likely her rent will be covered by housing benefit.

The situation is really the same as when you first posted about your concerns. If you are genuinely concerned, then you will have to consider whether you inform Children Services about your worries for the children. This may, as has been previously posted, have an effect on your relationship with your daughter. If Children Services were involved after the baby’s birth and you and your husband were seen as protective factors whilst your daughter remain in your home with the children, then if she is moving out Children Services would expect you to let them know. Children Services would be less than happy if your daughter moved out and they were not told. You may no longer be seen as putting the children’s needs first.

I understand that it is a difficult situation for you as you do not want to lose your daughter and grandchildren. This is why it is very important that you have a conversation with your daughter so she can understand the situation and the possible outcomes. If she cannot take this on board, she will not be able to understand Children Services concerns if they do become involved and this would not help her at all.

In order to help you understand what could happen when your daughter moves out and she finds it difficult to care for the children and if a referral is made to Children Services. I am including here a copy of our advice sheet about Child protection enquiries.

I hope you will find this helpful. However, if you wish to speak to an Adviser you are free to telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open Monday to Friday from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m.

Best wishes

Suzie