bad day in court

[tomika]

i couldnt find my last thread to add this on but court today was so awfull, childs dad was so smug and awfull an i think judge fell for it. when i mentioned that the dv he witnessed wasnt in report the judge said that if that was true then the child would of said so, but he didnt say it, i dont no why probably because he wasnt asked. his dad also said that the childs been brain washed and even though he doesnt want to see his dad that it shoudnt matter because what he's said isnt true. sorry this is a ramble i cant focus i just cant cope anymore. how can a judge say that. how can a dad call his child a liar. every step of the way im stuffed. i took the little boy to a councillor who said it was best he didnt go back to see his dad and that he was suffering from anxiety, yet in her report she didnt say this, just that he told her he didnt want to go. then look like i made it up. sorry again

[old bear]

hi tomika,
please, ramble away. i'd being doing more than rambling ~ but if the child's witnessed dv you won't want to hear what i'd like to do to the dad!
this looks like a real mess. but please don't do anything until you've had a chance to have a proper rant and cry and tear-your-hair out. then you can calm down and take a long, cool look at things, phone the helpline for advice (and i'm sure there'll be a lot on here quite soon) take a deep breath, and decide the best way forward.
there is always a way.
best wishes and much strength ~ old bear

[nanaJ]

Please ramble away. I totally understand and sympathise. Our poor grandson told the guardian and LA his father had hurt him but the Judge said that a child of 3 1/2 was not to be believed so I can understand your confusion and disbelief.

Children can be frightened of course of "offending" the other party by telling the truth about them and can also be afraid of them.

I really hope you have some support at Court. I know what it is like to be laughed at and verbally abused in the court room which was described by the same Judge as "showing his emotions..." Its probably a good job I didnt show mine!

Please do try and speak to the helpline, you cant go through this alone.

[Robin D]

While I can fully understand where you are coming from on this, I wouldn't be too sure that the judge has 'fallen for it'. I've yet to find a judge that could be described as a mug. I have though seen several that 'appear' to agree with a particular point of view, only to turn it on its head when it comes to final decisions. It's his job after all to take an impartial view at what is presented to him as evidence and then to make a judgement. Most are extremely canny but also inscrutable.

Are you being represented at court, or are you representing yourself? If the latter, you will get the opportunity to calmly present your evidence - it doesn't have to agree with the evidence already presented, and be prepared to be challenged on what you say. You can't expect to offer evidence and just have it accepted. If you keep telling it as it is, sooner or later, others will trip themselves up! On the assumption that you are a party, you will also have the right to submit a final statement in which you should carefully dismantle the evidence put up by the other side as I expect you are being the more truthful.

It's also reasonable to give parents every opportunity to redeem themselves and there have been a few notable cases on here where parents have managed to turn their lives around, generally with the support of the kin carer. It's rare, but it does happen so judges cannot simply say they are not going to listen to Dad.

I hope the next court day will be less stressful for you and we all hope that the right outcome is what is best for the children. I'm sure you still have a fight to get your evidence across, but provided you stay calm and stick to facts rather than opinion, all should turn out well.

Good luck, and as others say, feel free to ramble or rant on here. Many of us have been through it and know how hard it is, especially emotionally.

Best wishes ...... Robin






Grandparent carer in Suffolk [:)]

[tomika]

thank you for your kind comments. Having had time to look back i can see he was trying over and over to provoke us, he was also trying to prevent us from speakining as we couldnt get a word in, even though we sat quietly as he had his say. After speaking to a solicitor i feel a little better and he told us that the judge isnt very firm an probably couldnt controll the situation.

so now i have to send a statment and wait for his in return, then back to court with caffcass present. i forsee an awfull day in court again but no choice but to to plod on. just hope they will listen to a 8 (nearly 9) year old.

roll on him being old enough to choose for himself.

thanks again

[old bear]

hi tomika,
how's the statement going?
my thoughts are wil you.
old bear

[tomika]

Hello, well I sent my statement, kept to the facts and didnt mud sling, offerd to provide proof of dads dishonesty and hopefully spoke well for my nephew. Dads statement is now over two weeks late...his first one they orderd he didnt even bother sending. Next court date caffcass are to attend and he has to question them I think as he doesnt agree with report. I also went for legal advise and solicitor said its hard to argue with caffcass and that the wishes and feelings reports are usually listend to.

Does any body know of a 9 year old not wanting to go to contact and them being listend to? also found out that dad is expecting his 6th child with a 4th mother making 11 children between them. What a mess, but thanxfor asking

[Help 1870]

quote:Originally posted by ied53

that would be abuse to force him to go and wrong.
Irene


If its to the extent the child has to be forced then I agree with Irene, that is abuse.

If there is a guardian appointed s/he should come out and have a chat to him, when that happens you need to encourage him to say exactly how he feels, (without putting words in his mouth) he may only be 9, but his views should carry some weight at least.

I was going to ask if the school had some sort of counselor he could talk to, but if I remember rightly you havnt had much luck with the school so far.

[jenmarie]

My g/s is just 5 and has been with me for 9 months. He told the guardian and camhs worker that he doesn't want to see his parents. We have our final hearing on the 3rd November and the recommendations are that there will be no direct contact. The guardian and childs solicitor have both been excellent. Love and hugs. xxx

[tomika]

caffcass have done a wishes and feelings report, he told them he doesnt want to go and hes scared, that along with all the reasons I stopped contact (these reasons are somewere on here on my first thread)I thought he would just have to go back regardless so was going to ask for supervised and reduced, It was a phone call to social services who said I cant send him if he doesnt want to go. By the next hearing it will be 10 months since hes seen his dad. He said hes never going back, so I suggested phone calls..he said no and Im glad I didnt force him as dad screamed on the phone to one of his other children (no relation to me)making her cry. so I suggested letters, he said maybe because he cant shout in a letter. I also said if he does want to go back then he can as long as I know its safe..he said no way Im never going back. He told a teacher who backs us all the way, but caffcass didnt speak to her and when I said this in court the judge said Its to late now.

I dont think I have the heart to force him anyway and Im trying to prepare myself to break another order if thats what they say. Ive learned to be shocked and disapointed with the courts but Im hoping this time will be different.

Im also in court November, good luck. x