desperate nan

[camilu]

hi
This post has taken me a long time to write. I have been working myself up to it for months, so please bear with me if i ramble a bit.

I have six children who have mostly left or grown up and left home. My eldest daughter has been a problem throughout her teens. She was difficult at school and on many occasions was suspended for her behaviour. She had a cognitive assesment at the age of 11 and was just outside the acceptable educational level to receive help. Although her understanding pictorialy, socially and educationally was 2 years behind. I had already been through the statementing process with my older son and pushed to get help for her but the exhaustion and worry was too much and perhaps did not push hard enough. At 12 years old her behaviour at home was awful and she mixed with all the wrong crowd and made home life very difficult for all the children, myself and husband. She stole, lied and smashed up the house regularly. Her school asked me if i would like some help from social services as they could see i was at the end of my tether. I said yes...probably the biggest mistake of my life. Between the ages of 12 and 15 my daughter had four social workers who popped in occasionally to see how things were going. At 15 my daugher didnt come home for two weeks. It was not unusual for her to go missing for a day or two but i was beside myself and got the police involved to help me and social services to track her down. I scrawled the local area, squats ect for her. Eventually i tracked her down to a house in the area we live. I informed SS and the police i was going round there. I arrived at the house to get her and she refused to come home, i was upset and tearful and begged her to come home so we could talk. I held her hand to lead her out of the house and the police arived at that moment, within seconds my daughter was screaming that she had been beaten by her step father and she didnt want to come home. The police removed her from us. You can imagine i was absolutely in shock. I went home to my husband and told him what she had said. Now a quick interlude to the story....my husband and i married when i had four children. He was the calmest and hardest working person i ever met. He always backed me up on the discipline of the children but never ever raised a hand to them even when they were in his face, calling him names. He put up with so much from both my son and my daughter but never lost his temper, even when i was pulling my hair out. We did have difficulties in our relationship (he had a couple of affairs) but never argued and at this stage in my daughters life, he worked nights and days to provide for the children and myself. So he was barely there. I was flabbergasted that she could say this about him and so hurt.
My daughter after being in the police station for a couple of hours retracted her statement about my husband hitting her and asked to not come home though. With relief i said that was fine and assumed she would be put in a temp foster placement for a few days. The upshot of this was SS placing her with friends of hers, a local drug dealer and his wife. I was incensed as i had constantly told them this was one of the people who was a bad influence on her. The man had already had sex with her when she was 14 and i had told the police this but because my daughter told them this wasnt true they chose to believe her. She was there for a few days and then through me constantly on the phone to them they then placed her with my brother. After one day at my brothers she returned home.
I am sorry this is a long story but i will get to the point eventually.
She was fine for a few days then her behaviour went wild again. Quite soon after this she would go out for weekends at a time and not return. My husband and i split up, both he and i were depressed and i felt we had come to the end of our relationship. We separated amicably and he moved into a flat close by. In sept 2003 one year after we had separated, my daughter rang me and told me she was pregnant. I barely saw her now, she was always staying with her friends. She said she had a boyfriend and nowhere to live with him and could they come and stay. I of course was upset for her and for the rest of my family who had had so much to deal with, but i agreed they could stay for awhile as i did not want her on the streets pregnant. Her and bf moved in that wkend, he seemed a pleasant chap but was very controlling and much older at 23. I put up with him for her sake but occasionally explained to her that i was concerned about their relationship. Of course she did not take kindly to any comments from me. After about a month i heard a rumour from a friend that my daughters bf was a schedule 1 offender. I was horrified and sought out social services who were still involved with her to ask them if they knew anything about this chap. I also did my own investigation asking ex girlfriends of his if they knew anything and they confirmed my fears. I spoke to my daughter and asked her if she knew anything and she confirmed he'd been in prison but it was for driving offences and was adamant that their was nothing else. I have three younger children at that time they were 14, 11 and 10 and i was extremely concerned. After 4 weeks my daughters social worker rang and asked if she could see me. She came to my house and confirmed my worst fears, he was a sch 1 offender and had commited sexual acts of three very young girls. I called my daughter immediately and asked her to come home and see the social worker, she refused to come home and eventually when i caught up with her she flew at me and called me a liar. I had to set up a meeting with proof from her before she would believe anything about him. The night i found out when he returned i asked him to leave and told him i knew. I realized then he had primed my daughter from the beginning as he had with other young girls in the area. He had already 2 other children by two young mums in the area.

Anyway my daughter of course was distraught and pregnant, it was all very difficult and she still refused to believe it totally (and really understand the concept of paeodiphiles) She continued to live with me for a few months and too my knowledge didnt see he bf. She eventually met another guy, who again wasnt what i wanted for my daughter (dealer and car thief) but he was supportive of her during her pregnancy although not his child. She moved into a hostel at 7 months pregnant and spent a lot of time with her new bf. I supported her as much as i could, single parent with 3 kids, so not a lot of money. But we muddled through and had a beautiful boy in april 2004. I was there at the birth and fell in love with him immediately. My daughter went back to her hostel and things settled sort of...........Social services were constant visitors now at the hostel, as well as the council and local young family help grps. I visited regularly and she came to my house and stayed occasionally. There were various concerns of SS, not sterilizing bottles correctly, flat extremely untidy and her not attending parenting grps, social work visits ect. She neglected to pay her rent and other bills as well and was getting into a lot of problems from all the authorities. It then came to my notice that she was allowing the father of my gs to see him. The other girls in the hostel had complained about her letting him in to the hostel. Things were also going missing a lot and their had been complaints about her stealing. Social services stepped in as soon as they found out she had let the dad see my gs and called a meeting. They informed her if she continued my gs would be put on the cpr. She continued to play around and not take the threats serious and eventually in sept 04 my gs was put on the cpr. This was a terrible blow to me but my daugher i felt did not understand how awful this was. The category was neglect.
She stopped letting the dad see her son but continued to play around with the social worker visits, any hosp appointments, parenting grp. She repeatedly wasnt in when they called on her, the place was a mess and in may 05 the SS decided to go legal. She was told by myself other members of the family and SS that she needed to comply with all of their requests. By this time she had split up with the new bf. She was depressed and angry, angry with everyone, myself, SS, support workers, friends and ex bf. She was constantly harrasing him with his new gf and they were threatening her. The police were called to her caravan (by this time they had put her in a temp carava) on many occasions with her afraid. In june 05 she asked if she could stay with me for a few days, i although overcrowded, consented although it was only for a weekend and i did not have all the right equipment, like cot ect. She was happy and i was pleased she felt safe and cared for. It was lovely having my gs to stay for a few days. On the sunday of that wkend, i was decorating and the house was in uproar with kids, paint and general commotion of a family. My middle daughter was doing a barbecue to help me out. and my eldest daughter took her son out to visit friends. The only time i was worried that day was when i saw her in the park opposite with half a dozen young children all mulling around my gs. I asked her to come in and bring her son for dinner as the barbi would be ready soon. She said she would and i went back to decorating. Within the next hour i received a call from her ex bf auntie saying my daughter was drunk in the street and shouting at the house. Her ex and his new gf were there. They had taken my gs off of her and called the police. I arrived at the house within minutes and she was in the street shouting for me to go away. I went to the house and got my gs and took him home. He was grubby but generally happy but hungry. I began to undress him to get him washed and changed for his dinner. The police arrived within minutes with my daughter in a riot van, bashing the hell out of it. They entered the house and told me not to feed or undress him as they needed to call the paramedics to check him over. They could see his was fine, and i told them all he needed was food and changing. He was kicking a ball around the living room happy and smiling. One of the police said they felt he was fine but the young bobby decided they couldnt be too careful and called the paramedics, they removed him from me to the hosp. I cant even explain the pain and fear i felt at this point and was screaming with anger and fear. My daughter (i forgot to mention she is also pregnant with her second child, by the bf in that house that day) was taken away and put in a cell. she was eventually moved to the hosp in the early morning, after self harming. My gs was put straight in foster care the next day. That night at 2am in the morning, bear in mind i have a 12, 13 and 15 year old and it was school the next day, the police arrive in numbers. They barge in the house with a warrant and with video camara in hand they proceed to go in all the rooms and take pictures. I have two dogs, one little one and one bigger and they put the video camara up to the dogs face to make her bark. She is the gentlest animal in the world but was protecting my daughter she sleeps in her room. They then leave with us in pieces.
I was angry, upset and completely at a loss as to what to do. I had discussed in the past with SS about having my gs if my daughter couldnt keep him and they said they didnt see any reason why not. I had already fostered older teenage kids briefly, i had a complete police checks done on me for working with educational agencies and parents and kids. I had just qualified as a counsellor and had been working in the nearby womens prison. I was even considering taking a social work course to continue my career. They knew that at no time, before i married my husband and had four children under five...was there any question on my parenting skills. They knew i was a good mum who unfortunately had two kids with ebd. But because the police gave and unfavourable report on the state of my house, they would not place him with me. I have worn carpets and very little nice furniture. I had not cleaned that day, as i was painting all weekend. There was washing up in the sink and washing needing to be done. Do not others have teenage kids!!!!!! My second eldest son was also staying that weekend (19 years old) and was sleeping on the sofa, so you can imagine.
My daughter and i didnt talk that weekend, i was angry with her because i could not understand how she could have got herself in to this situation. She was angry with me because she felt i gave her son willingly to the police. After the weekend we talked and i said even though i was angry i would continue to support her. I got myself a solicitor and asked to be included in the court proceedings. I applied for kinship care, in conjunction with my daughter trying to regain custody. I was told about the assesments that would need to be done and i told them i would comply with whatever was needed i just wanted my gs back in the family. At that time in june they told us it should all be over by january 06 but we have now been told it wont be until july 06 at least (thats over a year!!) I have complied and been honest with all of the assesments, they have been extremely intrusive and i have been completely drained of my emotions. I have now been told that i am not suitable, here are some of the comments made :-
"I could see a lot of benefits to (gs) being brought up in the extended family. It is clear that you all love him and care about him deeply and are willing to make sacrifices to care for him. You have shown remarkable strength and determination in caring for all the children"
"how ever there are also a lot of risks. The risk are to do with the detail of the situation and som are not ones that can really be solved..................no one can know how your daugher will react to gs living with you, there is real potential for angry scenes which gs could be exposed to. YOur daughter needs her family and you still need to be a mother to her, that is right and as it should be. So it is not a resonable solution to cut her off from the family"
"another risk that i perceive is that the family dont realy feel that your daughers parenting was damaging to gs. Although you are clear that you could keep gs safe from daugher, if you genuinely feel she is not a threat to him it is unlikely that this would be maintained. Whe external inhibitors are removed there are no internal inhibitors by which you make your judgements"
"gs make also pick up familys negative feelings about his mothers behaviour. There is still a lot of anger in the family about her behaviour and its impact on yourselves over the last fe years"
"gs would end up being parented by his extended family. your household is abusy and it would inevitably end up with is care being shared with the teenagers"
"home conditions very crowded, finances timght, considerably sacrifices to be made by all the family and this could lead to resentments.

and so it goes on. I am angry to say the least..........i have never ever condoned my daughers behaviour, i do though understand she has various mental problems that she needs help with. She has recently had another cognitive assesment and her pict, social and reading age is approx 11, she is now 18!!! for gods sake she does need help but taking her child away is not the way forward. They should have helped when i asked them too at 12 years old.......
Of course there is still residue anger in the family but more than anything there is deep unhappiness in us all losing my gs, their nephew. I have and would never ever let my gs know my feelings about his mums behaviour. I would never run her down to him. Of course i would still see my daughter but she knows as we have discussed in great detail, if she doesnt get her son back it would be better that she could see him than he be adopted and never see him. She understands that it would be difficult and i too understand how strong i would have to be. But i know we could do this as a family. I would not expect my other children to look after him. I have given up my job and am at home all day. Having a big family surely is a bonus not a negative thing.
I cant bear this much longer, They are now saying they might consider a placement in an assesment centre for my daughter and her son and new baby. If she fails at this then this is her last chance. One mistake and weve lost both my gs. My granddaghter is due in january, she has already been put on the cpr.
Please please please any advice.......any support grps??? any thing at all........sometimes i just feel i need someone to talk to, because the anger and unhappiness i feel just overwhelms me. I see my gs for an hour once a week and always leave (not in his sight) exhausted with built up emotion. I hate caffcass and the SS for how they have handled my family. I hate the police for the naff way of dealing with these delicate situations.
I am so so sorry that this is along post....(fingers hurting now) there obviously is a lot more i could of put in and couldnt, or didnt feel it relevant. any questions will be answered straight away. I look forward to any responses. thankyou so much for reading this
lucy xxx

Lucy x

[Robin D]

Lucy,

I have read this, but I have a meeting to attend so can't give you what you deserve by way of a reply at the moment.

I will say that you really ought to ring the advice line on 0800 731 1696, because I'm not sure any of the reasons given constitute a good reason to not place the child with you.

quote: I could see a lot of benefits to (gs) being brought up in the extended family. It is clear that you all love him and care about him deeply and are willing to make sacrifices to care for him. You have shown remarkable strength and determination in caring for all the children"
This is very positive.

quote: "how ever there are also a lot of risks. The risk are to do with the detail of the situation and som are not ones that can really be solved..................no one can know how your daugher will react to gs living with you, there is real potential for angry scenes which gs could be exposed to. YOur daughter needs her family and you still need to be a mother to her, that is right and as it should be. So it is not a resonable solution to cut her off from the family"
There priority has to be the child. If it not reasonable to cut your daughter off from her family, its even less reasonable to do it to your grandchildren! What are they on? They have a duty to support the placement, that includes controlling the risks.

quote: "another risk that i perceive is that the family dont realy feel that your daughers parenting was damaging to gs. Although you are clear that you could keep gs safe from daugher, if you genuinely feel she is not a threat to him it is unlikely that this would be maintained. Whe external inhibitors are removed there are no internal inhibitors by which you make your judgements"
Are they really saying here that with proper support, this 18 year-old is beyond help and can never have any contact with a child she gives birth to? Its this very thing that started Family Rights Group in the first place.

quote: "gs make also pick up familys negative feelings about his mothers behaviour. There is still a lot of anger in the family about her behaviour and its impact on yourselves over the last fe years"
This just does not stand up to scrutiny. It happens in almost every contested court case, and people find a way around it!

quote: "gs would end up being parented by his extended family. your household is abusy and it would inevitably end up with is care being shared with the teenagers"
So what? What's different between this and any other large family? This is clearly applying their own view of normal life without any real thought that each family is different.

quote: "home conditions very crowded, finances timght, considerably sacrifices to be made by all the family and this could lead to resentments.
Again, they have a duty to provide support although getting financial support is a common problem here!

Do ring the advice line and point them at this thread. I hope you can find the energy to keep fighting.

Robin

PS: Where are you in the country in general terms?

Grandparent carer in Suffolk [:)]

[stargaze]

Lucy my heart go's out to you i really feel so sad for you.
Please do call the advice line as Robin has suggested and contact a solicitor who deals in family law i am sure between the Advice line and a solicitor there is some help out there.
If you need to just talk sound off please feel free to email me christine.tew@btinternet.com.
Stay strong you sound such a loving mum and grandma.
Christine.

[ann]

All I can say is, fight them all the way.Your grandson will be better off being looked after by you and your extended family, and people he knows. rather then being put into the care system.

good luck and you will find a lot of support here.

[caz]

i know how you feel lucy, keep strong, and if you want a natter mail me, im here, take care, caz

caz

[Kate]

My heart goes out to you, Lucy. I see that Robin has posted some helpful feedback and am sure the advice line can also help. I truly hope you can reverse this situation and keep your grandson in the family. Hang in there.

[jean garlick]

Lucy
Keep on fighting. We have had some vaguely similar problems - daughter has mental health problems and a probably learning disability - but luckily we didn't have to fight the authorities to obtain our granddaughter.

I agree with Robin's comments, many of the reasons for not placing your grandson with you make no sense and even appear contradictory.

Which part of the country are you in?


JeanG

[camilu]

hi and thank you all so much for your replies. I will continue to fight but sometimes i feel the life is sucked out of me. I have got a solicitor and will be talking to her in the next week about what the next step is. I did contact the grandparents association for maybe a support grp but they were not at all helpful and even cut me off a few times. I am astounded how many people there are in my situation or similar and now do not feel so alone. I live in surrey and would welcome any advice on support grps or people i can contact for support. I thank you all and will probably utilize the offers of emails for a rant ect. As sometimes as no doubt you all know, there is just no where to go with the anger and unfairness we feel. I love my grandson so much and will do everythng in my power to either help my daughter to look after him or look after him myself. I will keep you informed of any changes. Thanx again and big hugs for your replies XX


Lucy x

[trish]

Hi i really feel for you i am going through some very similar situations ans coments from ss. Hope you find the strength to carry on. you are in our thoughts good luck and please don't hesitate to contact me anytime. [:)]
good luck trish

trisha

[Robin D]

Trisha.

Unless you want a huge rise in spam, I suggest you edit out your email address. There are spiders crawling the web looking only for valid e-mail addresses. In a matter of days you could be facing hundreds of unwanted emails every day.

If people want to email other participants, please use the email this poster icon at the top of one of the posts. That sends it securely.

Just some friendly advice. [;)]

Robin

Grandparent carer in Suffolk [:)]