Need advice - SGO or not?

[indespair]

A newbie on here that needs some advice.
Is applying for a SGO the best scenario for my situation?
My son has a son- he paid for DNA test which confirmed paternity in Feb 2010 (child was 2yrs old at that time). The mother contacted my son at the end of 2009, when she split up from her then partner, who is named on the birth certificate, to tell him of the child’s existence. He started regular contact and had him to stay over 3 nights a week and saw him most days (my son lives with me and my other children at my house). He was employed at the time but is now unemployed but actively seeking work.
At beginning of August the mother had to leave her rented accommodation- she told my son on the Saturday that she had to hand the keys in on the Monday( this was her 3rd home since February). He helped her put her things in storage, which included most of the boy’s clothes (he came to us with 1 carrier bag of items) and she moved in with her new b/f temp while she supposedly looked for new accommodation. My son offered have my grandson full time for a couple of weeks till she found somewhere permanent to live. To date he is still with us and she is still living with her b/f.
To cut things short:-
• The mother does not get on with her own mother or grandparents-they indicated in Feb that they would like the boy to be looked after by my son.
• The mother has the boy overnight 1-2 nights a week whenever she decides- no set pattern.
• She agreed to complete a parental responsibility form with my son but always had an excuse no to do it- she has no photo id.
• She works 16hrs and claims c/benefit and tax credits for the boy yet technically he lives with me, as I provide a home and food for both my son and grandson.
• My son has had legal advice about getting parental responsibility but is reluctant to rock the boat by going through the court with the childs mother-he thinks she will take him away as she has threatened to move 40 miles away in the past.
• My son has been offered agency work at short notice but has to decline as he has no one to mind the boy (I work mornings) as he is not in a nursery and having no parental responsibility he can’t get him in one.
• My son looks after the boy- makes his meals, dresses him, puts him to bed etc and I sort of oversee things but I’m well aware that he needs to have health checks, dentist appts etc. We don’t know who his health visitor is or anything like that.
• When the boy stays with his mum she never returns the clothes and belongings he goes with and more annoyingly he comes back with a dummy, which he doesn’t have here- we spent a lot of time and effort to get him off a dummy as when we 1st got to know him he was a very emotional child who screamed constantly.

In a nutshell I am wondering whether to go for a SGO myself as it seems that the mother is quite happy with her boy living with us while she claims for him and has my son dropping him off and picking him up at the drop of a hat whenever she chooses. My son , although is caring for him, doesn’t look at the bigger picture.
Sorry if its a bit confusing but I just want the best for my grandson, I don’t want to take over, just make sure that we are not left in limbo if that makes sense. Please can anyone offer any advice how to sort this out amicably. We are caring for a child who it seems we have no legal claim on even though he is my grandson and I love him to bits. I have never met the mother btw. Thanks in advance.

[Help 1870]

Welcome to the forum, [:)]

You need to sort out this PR issue for your son.

You cant apply for SGO at the moment anyway, you must hold/previously held some form of PR or you must be a LA approved foster carer to make an immediate application. Otherwise you can only apply once the child has been living with you for 1 year

Once a child has been living with you for 6 weeks you should apply for the child benefit and CTC anyway. She is claiming this fraudulently, the money is for the child, not for her.

The biggest problem you have is that all the above is going to 'rock the boat', Mum may be quite happy allowing the child to live with you for now but once an application has been made for SGO and she realises the implications of it and how she will lose PR to such a degree she is less likely to be as happy and could fight fairly hard. Even if an application was possible I doubt a court would agree given the short length of time the child has been with you. There is no way to do this without her involvement.

I think the best thing your son can do is take the legal advice offered, which I would imagine would have been something along the lines of apply for a Residence order. That will prevent her from taking the child and moving away, he already has the proof of his paternity which will help the courts, and the RO will give him PR to organise everything else without having to mess with the childs birth certificate. But tbh, if at all possible, that birth certificate needs altering to remove the other mans name and put your sons in its place.

At this stage I dont think an SGO is even possible never mind the best scenario.

[indespair]

Thank you for your speedy reply.

I think I've jumped the gun abit by thinking that SGO is the way to go. I've been trying to research all the different options available and trying to see which is apt for our situation and I'm getting very confused!

Reading some of the posts on here, I realise now that it's not going to be easy to sort out.

I spoke to someone on the Tax credits helpline who told me that the mother is quite within her rights to claim for her son wherever he is living and that she's not necessarily 'fiddling' the system so to speak. That person said that my son could apply for tax credits and then the mother would be contacted. Then they would look into the situation and a decision would be made after. To me it didn't sound hopeful that we could claim especially as we have no PR or anything legal to confirm that we have any rights over him.

Are you saying that I could claim tax credits rather than my son?

[Muspark]

That person at the CB office is talking rubbish... it makes all the difference who has care of the child and where they live. You could call again tomorrow and speak to someone who gives you the right information... luck of the drawer it seems in this country at the moment, with any government agency (bit of politics there!)

PR is your most important thing as Help has said. Your son needs to drive this. How old is he and how much responsibility does he take. Is it a case of him just living with you and taking care of his son mostly on his own? Most of the people here have no parent living with them, just the child, and that is why the SGO and RO are so important.

[Help 1870]

Im going to be less polite than muspark was, (blame my hormones or whatever[:D])

Whoever you spoke of is blowing nothing more substantial than warm air out of whichever end they are talking out of.

These benefits follow the child which is why they are called child benefit and child tax credit. They give 6 weeks just in case the children return, but after that time its classed as a long term placement and the payment ceases to whoever is claiming it and is given to whoever has care of the child.

Id imagine who could/would claim the child benefit and tax credit would depend on who was providing the care, and being responsible for the child.

[indespair]

Thanks to Help and Muspark for taking the time to respond, it is much appreciated.

My son is 21 and it is a case of him just living with me and taking care of his son mostly on his own- though I provide food, my son makes his meals and I provide a roof over their heads ( I have changed things so that my gs has his own bedroom so that he has that bit of extra security). I have been very careful not to take over and as I said in my op I tend to oversee things- I also buy bits and bobs he needs as we dont get things back off the mother after she's had him, things like tshirts, socks, babywipes etc.

The problem at the moment is that my son has been offered work (he is a qualified joiner) but has no means of childcare as I work mornings and he couldnt afford it in anycase. Three months ago he was due to start a nursery and even had a trial visit, however the mother decided not to let him go as there wasn't a sandpit! My son used to have the boy while the mother worked, until he came to stay with us and now we have him most of the time.

Any suggestions about dealing with this?

If one of us claimed tax credits, would we be able to get him childcare or a nursery place bearing in mind we have no PR? At least then my son will be able to accept job offers knowing the boy is getting looked after. Then he will be in a better position to care and provide for his son himself.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself, Its hard to write things down clearly.

Any suggestions as to the best thing to do

[Help 1870]

Whoever claims the child benefit can then claim the CTC, (possibly working tax credit too) and the child care portion of CTC. that pays approx 70% of childcare. These benefits are not dependent on PR, many carers have had to claim them before any orders were granted giving them PR, its dependent on who the child is living with and how long they have been there.

The difficulty, and the danger I can see is that when mum realises her money has been stopped shes going to start making waves. At the moment she is the only one who has PR, I cant say with 100% surety, but if she turned up with a police officer demanding the child back there is nothing legally you can do to prevent her from taking him and the police would likely support her with that. When he goes for contact, there is nothing preventing her from simply not returning him.

One of you needs to seriously consider obtaining a Residence order to prevent this happening. My guess would be your son would have a better chance than you would, unless he supports your application, but I would suggest you both get some legal advice on the matter before you decide.

Not wanting to rock the boat is not doing this little boy any good at all, someone needs to take decisive action, and take it soon before mum decides to make off with the child.

[Help 1870]

Child benefit is not dependent on PR. You just have to be the long term carer for a child.