Applying for Residence Order do we need SGO?

[pollypocket]

His mother placed him with us for a w/e then didnt ever want him back, said she couldnt cope etc etc. She is now back with the partner that she had to be placed 100s of miles away from in a refuge only 3 months ago - we saw them today en route to our address. We are sure mother would try to snatch if we didnt have PR. We are very scared that we will lose him (and then he would be at significant risk and exposure to physical and emotional abuse) or be left with no support and the worry that Mum will attempt to snatch. She initially agreed with social services that we should look after him as she was incapable (in fact she had been violently attacked the night before by drug dealers who are still chasing her around the country - she was placed on a high risk profile by the police as a result).

Our solicitor has given us a date for court for the IRO, then we believe we would have to apply for RO before being allowed to apply for special guardianship. Mum is still no fixed abode but likely with the associates that have previously been extremely violent toward her.

If we are foster carers I understood that Mum could come and get him at any time?

Everyone seems v keen to leave us to do this alone - and ss are worse than useless, we have been fighting for this little boys protection for nearly 2 years and they have ignored it every time.

pp

pp

[pollypocket]

Oh and little one been with us for 8 weeks now - and this is the third long spell away from Mum, she did the same at xmas and the year previously he was with maternal grandmother for 4 months before she placed him in care where he remained for 6 weeks.

pp

[Help 1870]

Theres nothing to say she wont try and snatch him even under a RO. With that particular order you will equally share PR. She could make your lives a living hell, especially if she can get Legal aid to bounce you in and out of court for contact or to discharge the RO.

Theres certainly nothing to stop her from coming and demanding him back now as it seems she hold all the PR.

Id be asking the SS to take out an interim Care order until any final order is agreed on, then ask for SGO. If the child was on an ICO and you were his foster carers there would be no concerns about her trying to snatch.

Have you rang the helpline yet? If not I would do it, It sounds to me that you are being pushed down the RO route, and it may be the least safest for you and the child.

[pollypocket]

She has got legal aid so would think nothing of continually bouncing us in and out of court - do you mean that SS should apply for the interim residence order? What is an interim care order? SS are very backward in helping us and we are scared stiff that they will send him back to mother. Or should we continue with ours and then go for SGO. I will call helpline and solicitor too tomo - it is also v unhelpful that solicitor is on annual leave when our first directions hearing takes place in 2 weeks.

This whole situation is making me sick with worry - we have a happy and settled little boy after 8 weeks and I am just desperate to assure he stays that way. [V]


pp

[pollypocket]

Also SS have never mentioned the possibility of us being foster carers, we did ask and they said it 'didnt work like that', when Mum first dumped little one I actually took him into SS and asked what to do, they said it was a private care arrangement and nothing to do with them - I then explained that it was no arrangement and that Mum had disappeared....but they did nothing.

pp

[Help 1870]

SS cannot apply for a residence order, (its private law) they could apply for a Care Order, (or interim one) that would then mean the child would be in care with them holding PR and deciding where he would live.

Are you applying for a full RO or just an Interim one? You cant have both. Interim would keep it in proceedings, a full RO would probably see them vanishing in a large cloud of dust leaving you to deal with the aftermath.

What makes you think SS will send him back to mother?

They are saying go for the IRO so that gives you the PR to apply for SGO. without that PR you would have to wait for a year. The other way of doing it would be for SS to take out an ICO, you be foster carer and they support your application for SGO. Personally I think that would be the far safer route for the child, Its just persuading them thats the way they need to go.

Saying it 'dont work like that' is a crock, it can work anyway they want it to. Am I right in thinking the Dad is still around and he has PR?

[pollypocket]

Thanks for the above - we are applying for Interim Residence Order and SS are pushing for us to do RO then SGO but seems we could go straight to SGO? SS have said to us and our solicitor that if Mum did try to snatch then they would take legal action, we have been advised to call police and out of hours ss if that happens...I just dont trust them as far as I can throw them.

We have SS support for RO and SGO and they have agreed to pay toward our court costs, but our solicitor is getting this in writing now. The reason I am scared that SS will return to mother is that they have made these promises before - for example 'if she returns to this partner we would immediately remove little one as he would be at significant risk'....when she returned to said partner they did nothing and little one again was party to violent attacks and threats to both of their lives. It seems that with SS its all been about money but it is important to remember that it was they who strongly advised us to go for SGO on the grounds that their reports would be extremely favourable.

Biological Dad is local rogue, not named of Birth Cert and has been applying for contact for around a year but didnt himself ever show up to court so finally judge chucked it out. Never had DNA to prove he is Dad, so no PR. Our solicitor is serving him with papers and he has said he supports us....but I also dont trust him either.

pp

[pollypocket]

Typically mother has come up with a story to 'explain' her being near our address with her 'ex'...she has flat secured and says she will come and fight for her son. Obviously we know we are in a weak position but does anyone on here know if we stand a chance? Like I mentioned we have support of social services and hopefully biological father, I have 26 page report of incidents in which little one has been neglected/exposed to violence/emotionally abused....would a judge accept that Mum is supposedly having 'fresh start' - again and give him back to her?

I am sick with worry that he will be returned and that in 6 months we will be back to square one.[V]

pp

[Sharon_M]

Hi Pollypocket

I'm not sure whether this will help or not, but I was in quite a similar situation to you recently.

Basically, we had a child "left" with us aswell - she isn't a relation in my case, she is my Daughter's friend - but the basics are the same in that her Dad left her with us one weekend. However, when she was meant to go back, he refused to have her saying he couldn't cope (her Mum wasn't in the picture at this stage, she had abandoned her a few months previously)

Social Services were totally useless to start with, saying we had come to a private arrangement etc. My argument was that we hadn't come to a private arrangement, her Dad had abandoned her - what were we exactly meant to do with her? Throw her out?! I had to really push the matter and ring and speak to Managers etc before they would even agree to look at our case. Eventually a Social Worker was sent to see us and the short of it is they advised either an RO or SGO - which I refused as there was no guaranteed financial help which we had to have in order to look after the girl.

I had several months of wrangling before Social Services eventually agreed to take the girl into care and myself and my Husband then became her Specific Foster Parents. I had to push for this every inch of the way and make a nuisance of myself - I emailed at least twice a week as well as calling. I preferred emails because at least you have written proof of what has been said. If I called, I always found if I spoke to Managers rather than the assigned Social Workers it helped. I understand this method won't work for everyone, but as I said, it definitely worked for me.

It's still not straightforward - the child's Mum has now decided she wants contact again, and she still holds PR..... but it's working for now and we are getting paid as Foster Carers as well.

I hope this helps - and good luck. [:)]

[pollypocket]

Thank you for that - we have court date for this week for interim order and then we are happy to go for special guardianship but only with support, our solicitor is pushing for foster/kinship care but I believe that would give us less rights and control over little one? Mum is already making a fuss saying 'we want her son' and that she is going to get him back. Just really hope the court wont be taken in by her 'im going to change' rubbish, when nothing has changed in the last 10 years and indeed has got worse since her son was born.

I will update with our progress. Thanks for all advice and help.

pp