bad day in court

tomika
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:23 pm

bad day in court

Postby tomika » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:52 pm

i couldnt find my last thread to add this on but court today was so awfull, childs dad was so smug and awfull an i think judge fell for it. when i mentioned that the dv he witnessed wasnt in report the judge said that if that was true then the child would of said so, but he didnt say it, i dont no why probably because he wasnt asked. his dad also said that the childs been brain washed and even though he doesnt want to see his dad that it shoudnt matter because what he's said isnt true. sorry this is a ramble i cant focus i just cant cope anymore. how can a judge say that. how can a dad call his child a liar. every step of the way im stuffed. i took the little boy to a councillor who said it was best he didnt go back to see his dad and that he was suffering from anxiety, yet in her report she didnt say this, just that he told her he didnt want to go. then look like i made it up. sorry again

old bear
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: bad day in court

Postby old bear » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:54 pm

hi tomika,
please, ramble away. i'd being doing more than rambling ~ but if the child's witnessed dv you won't want to hear what i'd like to do to the dad!
this looks like a real mess. but please don't do anything until you've had a chance to have a proper rant and cry and tear-your-hair out. then you can calm down and take a long, cool look at things, phone the helpline for advice (and i'm sure there'll be a lot on here quite soon) take a deep breath, and decide the best way forward.
there is always a way.
best wishes and much strength ~ old bear

nanaJ
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:11 pm

Re: bad day in court

Postby nanaJ » Wed Aug 04, 2010 6:58 pm

Please ramble away. I totally understand and sympathise. Our poor grandson told the guardian and LA his father had hurt him but the Judge said that a child of 3 1/2 was not to be believed so I can understand your confusion and disbelief.

Children can be frightened of course of "offending" the other party by telling the truth about them and can also be afraid of them.

I really hope you have some support at Court. I know what it is like to be laughed at and verbally abused in the court room which was described by the same Judge as "showing his emotions..." Its probably a good job I didnt show mine!

Please do try and speak to the helpline, you cant go through this alone.

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Robin D
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Re: bad day in court

Postby Robin D » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:38 pm

While I can fully understand where you are coming from on this, I wouldn't be too sure that the judge has 'fallen for it'. I've yet to find a judge that could be described as a mug. I have though seen several that 'appear' to agree with a particular point of view, only to turn it on its head when it comes to final decisions. It's his job after all to take an impartial view at what is presented to him as evidence and then to make a judgement. Most are extremely canny but also inscrutable.

Are you being represented at court, or are you representing yourself? If the latter, you will get the opportunity to calmly present your evidence - it doesn't have to agree with the evidence already presented, and be prepared to be challenged on what you say. You can't expect to offer evidence and just have it accepted. If you keep telling it as it is, sooner or later, others will trip themselves up! On the assumption that you are a party, you will also have the right to submit a final statement in which you should carefully dismantle the evidence put up by the other side as I expect you are being the more truthful.

It's also reasonable to give parents every opportunity to redeem themselves and there have been a few notable cases on here where parents have managed to turn their lives around, generally with the support of the kin carer. It's rare, but it does happen so judges cannot simply say they are not going to listen to Dad.

I hope the next court day will be less stressful for you and we all hope that the right outcome is what is best for the children. I'm sure you still have a fight to get your evidence across, but provided you stay calm and stick to facts rather than opinion, all should turn out well.

Good luck, and as others say, feel free to ramble or rant on here. Many of us have been through it and know how hard it is, especially emotionally.

Best wishes ...... Robin






Grandparent carer in Suffolk [:)]
Former F&F carer, foster carer, adopter and respite carer for umpteen children. Now retired and when with kids, making sure they 'go home' at the end of the day.

tomika
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:23 pm

Re: bad day in court

Postby tomika » Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:44 pm

thank you for your kind comments. Having had time to look back i can see he was trying over and over to provoke us, he was also trying to prevent us from speakining as we couldnt get a word in, even though we sat quietly as he had his say. After speaking to a solicitor i feel a little better and he told us that the judge isnt very firm an probably couldnt controll the situation.

so now i have to send a statment and wait for his in return, then back to court with caffcass present. i forsee an awfull day in court again but no choice but to to plod on. just hope they will listen to a 8 (nearly 9) year old.

roll on him being old enough to choose for himself.

thanks again

old bear
Posts: 356
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: bad day in court

Postby old bear » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:31 am

hi tomika,
how's the statement going?
my thoughts are wil you.
old bear

tomika
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:23 pm

Re: bad day in court

Postby tomika » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:32 pm

Hello, well I sent my statement, kept to the facts and didnt mud sling, offerd to provide proof of dads dishonesty and hopefully spoke well for my nephew. Dads statement is now over two weeks late...his first one they orderd he didnt even bother sending. Next court date caffcass are to attend and he has to question them I think as he doesnt agree with report. I also went for legal advise and solicitor said its hard to argue with caffcass and that the wishes and feelings reports are usually listend to.

Does any body know of a 9 year old not wanting to go to contact and them being listend to? also found out that dad is expecting his 6th child with a 4th mother making 11 children between them. What a mess, but thanxfor asking :)

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ied53
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Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:26 pm

Re: bad day in court

Postby ied53 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:35 pm

To what extent is the child refusing to go? saying no or getting upset and would need pushing? if the first then he should be encouraged ( politically correct answer) if the latter then in my person opinion that would be abuse to force him to go and wrong. If you still have a legal advisor I suggest you discuss this with them if not then the soc servs just make sure the child is yelling right next to you when you make the call so they can hear how upset. Have you asked the child what concerns him about going? And then making notes on this or get his social worker to ask him

Irene
Irene
Grandparent carer in Lincolnshire
Tough times never last tough people do

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Help 1870
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Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:54 am

Re: bad day in court

Postby Help 1870 » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:10 pm

quote:
Originally posted by ied53

that would be abuse to force him to go and wrong.
Irene



If its to the extent the child has to be forced then I agree with Irene, that is abuse.

If there is a guardian appointed s/he should come out and have a chat to him, when that happens you need to encourage him to say exactly how he feels, (without putting words in his mouth) he may only be 9, but his views should carry some weight at least.

I was going to ask if the school had some sort of counselor he could talk to, but if I remember rightly you havnt had much luck with the school so far.

jenmarie
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:37 am

Re: bad day in court

Postby jenmarie » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:34 am

My g/s is just 5 and has been with me for 9 months. He told the guardian and camhs worker that he doesn't want to see his parents. We have our final hearing on the 3rd November and the recommendations are that there will be no direct contact. The guardian and childs solicitor have both been excellent. Love and hugs. xxx


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