Help needed please

[Worriednana]

Hi I really need some advice. My daughters two boys have been put on a section 47, I have the 3 year old with me and the younger boy is with his other nana he is 1 years old. Children services have been involved since the eldest boy was born due to domestic violence with his dad, he was put on a child protection order when he was 9 months old that lasted for about 4 months. Last year a plo was put in place but this was removed as my daughter appeared to be doing everything the order asked of her.
Last week I got a phone call asking me if I would take the eldest boy as there had been 3 more reports of domestic violence and she was refusing to move away from her home, the younger had been picked up by his other nana totally unaware of what was going on. I took the eldest boy being told at the most it would be for 2 days. On the third day of him being here it went to a section 47 and the boys was stay where they was with no contact with there mum unless supervised. The social worker had already asked me if I was willing if needed to take both boys into my care under a sgo, I explained to her that I couldn't cope with both, I'm in my fifties and suffer with Fibromyalgia and other health problems. After speaking to the other nana she said she would take on the care of the younger boy with us both agreeing that the two boys need to stay in close contact. Which we have already put a plan in place in the hope in time when both boys are settled I would have the younger one to stay with me over a weekend. Neither boy as any routine at all no bed times nothing, the eldest one as young as he his has got quite a few issues which I'm working to help him but firstly need to try to get some stability in his life.
Now it hasn't been said yet that the boys will never go back to there mum but reading between the lines of what little I have been told this is not going to happen. Children services have not been in contact with me since last Thursday, what she did say was that if I didn't agree to take both boys they could be put into care and would eventually go up for adoption I feel as if she is trying to bully me. My question is, is that what the outcome would be even though there's two grandparents who are willing to take on the care of them. And if it goes to another plo which they have said it could will my daughter lose them.
Sorry it's a bit of a long post but I'm desperate for some advice. Thank you in advance

[Worriednana]

Thank you for your reply, the other grandparent is not the older child's nana, the two boys have different fathers so it isn't an option for her to take them both.

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear Worriednana

Welcome to the Family and Friends Carers’ Discussion Forum.

My name is Suzie, online adviser at Family Rights Group. I am sorry that you are feeling desperate about the situation you find yourself in at the moment regarding your grandson and children services involvement.

You have had some useful information from ied53 in her response to your post.

In your post you say that daughter’s two boy have been put on section 47. From this I assume you mean that they are subject to child protection plans. You are currently looking after your grandson but you do not say in what capacity you are doing so. Have you been assessed by children services as a foster carer for your grandson? If, not, what arrangement is there in place for your grandson being in your care.

You said that the other child is being cared for by his grandmother and you are both working together to ensure that the boys have contact with each other. Is this arrangement made by the two of you or does children services tell you both what should happen about contact.

Before children services can make arrangements for the children to be removed from their parents, they would need to have the mother’s (and father if he has parental responsibility) agreement. I am supposing therefore that at the moment the children are being accommodated and are looked after children on a voluntary basis.

For children services to make permanent long term arrangements about where the children will live in the future, they will need to have a care order made by the court which will give them shared parental responsibility and allow them to make decisions. Children services would have to make an application to the court for this order to be made or if they decide not to go to court themselves, might suggest to you and the other grandmother that you apply to the court for child arrangement orders or special guardianship orders so you will be able to care for the children. Children services should carry out an assessment of both grandmothers to determine whether the placements would be secure for the rest of the children’s minority.

If you do not feel able to care for both children then children services should not try to force you into that position. They are to make decisions on the basis of what is best for the children. I am including copies of our advice sheets relating to child protection procedures child protection procedures and the duties that children services have when a child is in the care system

It is not clear if there has been a family group conference for the parents, family members and friends to meet and decide what support they are able to offer to ensure the children are kept safe. A copy of our advice sheet relating to family group conferences is here for your information.

Also, children services are required to assess parents, family and friends and other connected persons before a court would decide that a child would have to be adopted.

Please read our advice sheets relating to family and friends carers and the support they are entitled to when caring for a child.

Should you wish to speak to an adviser, please telephone our free, confidential advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m. Monday to Friday.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie

[Worriednana]

Hi Suzy thanks for replying, it started out as being volunteered but then when it went to the Section 47 they said the children were not to return home to there mum. Neither dad as parental responsibility the eldest son dad is not allowed anywhere near him.
There as been no family meeting, in fact I have had no information at all except for her to say that the boys will go up for adoption if I don't take the care of both them. So in your opinion do you think this will happen? And if so can we fight the decision made.
Also the s47 ends this Thurdsay what will happen then. The only contact they have had with mum will be a supervised visit with Childrend Services tomorrow, also am I in my rights to stop this as I know the eldest boy will kick and scream when it comes for him to go.
Thanks again

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Dear worriednana

Thank you for your further post.

I am a little concerned about what you say in your post regarding how you are looking after your grandson.

Firstly, can you please explain how he came to be in your care in the first place, in your post you say it was voluntary at first. I am not clear what you mean by this. Have you been assessed as a foster carer? Are you receiving a fostering allowance from the local authority? It is important to know the legal position for your grandson being in your care.

Are children services saying that it is a private family arrangement between you and the child’s mother? This may not be the case which is why it is necessary to know how he came to be in your care. I should point out that if the children’s services placed your grandson in your care then they have a responsibility to him as a looked after child. Also, you would be entitled to receive the minimum allowance that the government say should be paid to foster carers. This could be anything from £147 to £128 per week depending on where in the country you are living.

Regarding contact, the mother is entitled to have contact, you have no rights to stop contact as the mother is probably the only one with parental responsibility at the moment. There is no reason, however, why you cannot express your concerns to the social worker about how your grandson is affected by contact.

The social worker cannot say that your grandson or his sibling will be adopted as that is a decision for the court to make after children’s services have made an application to the court. Decisions regarding a child’s long term care has to be made taking account of the child’s welfare which the court’s first consideration in cases relating to children and who will look after them. As I explained in my previous post, you should not be bullied into agreeing something that you do not feel able to do. The court will consider both children and what is best for them and usually want siblings to be together if it is in their best interests. It could happen that when a full assessment is carried out on you and the other grandmother that neither of you are considered a good prospect as long term carers for the whole of the children’s minority. Alternatively, it could work the other way as well and you can both continue looking after the children.

I think you should understand that if your grandson were to remain in your care he would be entitled to have a support package if a special guardianship order was made in your favour. This is why it is important to find out whether he is in fact a looked after child now.

Please post again if you need further advice or information. I suggest you read the advice sheets that I sent you with my last post.

Alternatively, if you would like to speak to an adviser, you can telephone our free, confidential advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m. Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie