contact issues

Tia
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:30 pm

contact issues

Postby Tia » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:14 pm

HI

Me and my husband have had our nephew since October 2014 and have a SGO, we have nothing but problems since we had him from he mother. We had the police out as she has turned up here and sent abusive messages, police arrest her then cps said couldn't charge her as she done nothing wrong!! we have rang our local authority for advice no help. Feel we have just been left to get on with it. We was ment to do contact but it was to heated not fair in front of out nephew as all he mum wanted to do is screaming and shout, so our nephew sister does contact but now she is turning abusive and turn up at ours shouting? No point calling police as feel nothing can be done so mother is still the same. As to regards to contact we have asked about having contact centre but social have said no as we have SGO so we should sort it out. We tell mother what time to pick up and all they do send abusive if they can't get there own way. On contact it's not positive because our nephew comes home not happy and very aggressive and they tell him not to talk to us and always question him, we have told her her can not go over to her mates with him and she says she do what she likes. If they can't get there own way turn up at my parents house or my place of work giving abusive. My nephew now says he does not want to see he mum every month just wants to see her 2 or 3 times a year. We have no support and feel like we doing what we are asked but being told we are wrong. As to regards to contact they always want late afternoon bec they can not be bothered to get out of bed. We feel that when it's late afternoon he comes home doesn't get time with us for down time as he goes to bed at 7pm and when he had contact we have a struggle getting him to bed as they have let him do what he likes and rudeness we get! And tell him to lie and. Not speak to us then he gets upset and tells us. Can we stop contact All together or can we limit contact as my nephew only wants 2 or 3 times Ayear?

DGJ
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:15 pm

Re: contact issues

Postby DGJ » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:59 am

Is there a contact order in place.? If there is no contact order in place then you can do what seems in the best interests or wishes for the child. If there is a contact order you should apply for a change in the order due to circumstances. I'm quite shocked with the La decision that they won't supervise( both my 2 sgo children are supervised by my La due to the harassment and threats of parents) have you ever thought of complaining and taking a step further with your La. Also the normal amount is 7 times I think but I reduced one of my Sgo children to 5 times and now it's 0 because of the risk mum is putting her in and it's longer safe.We all had a contact review which decided this was in best interests and etc and someone spoke to the child to get her views.
Also the police should be supporting you more. There is something called a harassment warning which the police gave to hand to them.. Go into your nearest police station and ask about this.. I did this with my child's parents. Although we did move shortly after because we wanted our children to have there freedom and now they aren't aware of where we live.Is this an option? I know it's seems quite harsh.. Why should this be the only option? We didn't want to move we had lived in that area for along time and the kids school etc etc..But now I wouldn't look back.. I less stressed.. Feel alot safer.. Etc....And the kids are happier.. If you like you can private message me.. Sorry for going on abit(alot)

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:25 am

Re: contact issues

Postby Suzie, FRG Adviser » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:56 pm

Dear Tia

Welcome to the Family and Friend's discussion board. My name is Suzie, one of FRG's online advisers.

I am sorry that you are going through such difficulties in respect of the current contact involving your grandchild with their mother.

Your post provides evidence about the fact you have had to manage unpredictability and abuse from the child's mother, as she struggles to contain her emotions. Hence, the present situation must be having a negative impact on yourself and the child.

Sadly, because you have a special guardianship order, the Local Authority will consider it as a private arrangement, since they have no active involvement.

As pointed out by DJG, if the court did not grant a specified contact order, did the special guardianship support plan include any reference to support around contact?

If it did not, (except as part of a short term involvement such as a child protection investigation or assessing a party for court), Children's Services are not obliged to supervise contact when a special guardianship order is in place.

It may be advisable to invite mother to a mediation session, where you can try to resolve your differences in the presence of a third party.

However, it is important to remember that as a special guardian, you have the power to review and if necessary suspend the current contact arrangements, if you have assessed it not to be in the child's best interests.

Can I also recommend you continue to report any new incidents to the police and keep a copy of the crime reference number as this may be important evidence should the matter be returned to court.

If they refuse to attend your home or investigate, you may need to progress the matter through the police complaints authority.

I hope this helps.

Best Wishes


Suzie

Tia
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: contact issues

Postby Tia » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:13 pm

Hi

We was only told 5hrs a month! No other contact plan put in place! Also it supervised contact. Over the weekend they did not turn up for contact we rang and text them no answer and waited hour and then went out. Text that nite having excuses and demanding contact we told them you missed your contact and that also he doesn't want to see you till October! But we had to ring the police as we had nothing but abusive messages and coming to my family! Police taking information down but feel like nothing will be done about it. We also told them to take us to court as regards to the contact as my nephew saying he doesn't want to see he mum every month just wants every 2 months. I know he only 6 years old but he knows what he wants, and to top it all off my mother in law and father in law are saying we are out of order and should waited in as they was 10mins late! Know a hour had passed no contact but they told them they was here!! Feel we trying to do are best for our nephew but we are In the wrong!

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:25 am

Re: contact issues

Postby Suzie, FRG Adviser » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:01 pm

Dear Tia

Thank you for posting again.

I am sorry that you find yourselves in this distressing situation whilst trying to parent your nephew under the Special Guardianship Order.

As stated in the posted response on 31st July, you are able to suspend or stop contact if you do not consider that it is in your nephew’s best interests. Please also understand that contact is for the benefit of the child not for the parent. If you feel your nephew is being adversely affected by the contact he has then you should seriously consider suspending it for a while.

If your nephew’s mother wishes then she can take the matter to court for a Child Arrangement Order. It is not right that you should be bullied and intimidated in this way. You have parental responsibility for your nephew and can exercise over and above that of his mother and this means making decisions on his behalf.

It would be helpful if you keep a record of contact from now on if you decide not to suspend contact. Make a note of the time contact should take place, the time the mother arrives and her behaviour. Please also report the matters to the police as previously advised as this will also provide evidence of the sort of behaviour you have to cope with.

Your nephew’s mother is clearly angry that her son is not with her but at the same time should think about the reasons why he is not in her care. Also, with you and your husband stepping in means that he has remained within the family. It might help if you were able to attend mediation to try and resolve matters if possible without the need to go to court.

If you are not able to reach agreement then there will be no alternative but for the matter to go court. A court order would mean that contact arrangements are specified and everyone knows exactly what is expected of them. I have included here a copy of our advice sheet about what special guardianship means for birth parents.

I am including details of Coram Children’s Legal Centre the organisation that deals with private law matters which contact is and they will be able to give you more information about your situation and your options.

I hope you find this information helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie

Tia
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: contact issues

Postby Tia » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:47 pm

Hi

Since this matter we have let contact happen but now have stop this due to the mother and her daughter who supervised contact have got our nephew to lie and make out he not been to there house this has happened on more then 4 occasion and last contact my nephew had with he sister he came back saying he didn't want to see he sister or mum as they are saying horrible things about me and husband and he dad. He is very upset and angry and we have gone for our nephew best interest but we are getting abuse from both he mum and sister, coming to my place of work and shouting Abuse and going to my parents shouting abuse. We feel that best for him not to see him as this effecting him at school and home and we ask him to call them or do u want to see them he says no. We have spoke to social services and they know we have stop we was looking into supervised contact centre but we have to pay I don't see why we should pay for her to see her son, she was arrested couple months ago due to her behaviour to us and all she got was a caution. Police don't seem to take this serious she is not stable nor is he daughter way they are all acting.

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ied53
Posts: 2122
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:26 pm

Re: contact issues

Postby ied53 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:13 am

Hi, as a carer I would take the same approach as you. Contact is for the child not the parents. If they choose to emotionally abuse the child and that is what they are doing then it is not safe. The child must feel secure with the carers. Frightening the child will not have him returned to then and them need to accept this , ( never will) He is obviously secure with you and feels strongly about you so that is fantastic. Maybe you need to consider a prohibitive steps order against the Mother and co. Or a non molestation or. If they come to your work get someone else to call the police report events as this builds a picture of harassment.
Irene
Grandparent carer in Lincolnshire
Tough times never last tough people do

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:25 am

Re: contact issues

Postby Suzie, FRG Adviser » Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:55 pm

Dear Tia

I am sorry that this saga regarding contact between your nephew and his mother is continuing to cause you problems.

You have now suspended further contact and you are entitled to do so because of the impact it is having on the child. He is the most important person in all of this and, as previously, advised contact is for his benefit and no one else’s. As you have been advised by ied53 the behaviour of the mother and daughter is totally unacceptable and causing emotional abuse to the child.

Please refer back to the advice you were given regarding contact issues in July and August as the position remains the same for you.

As ied53 suggested if the mother is coming to your home or place of work and causing a problem you should consider obtaining an order to stop her doing so. Report it to the police as it could amount to harassment if she continues the behaviour.

If he does not want to have contact then this should not be pursued as his wishes and feelings also have to be taken into account. How did contact happen before so that he could be taken to the mother’s home? Was contact unsupervised? Do you think the mother will try to remove your nephew from school, if so, then you could apply for a prohibited steps order to prevent this?

Unfortunately, the mother is not thinking about her child at all and how her behaviour will impact on him. It was probably her inability to put his needs first that caused difficulties in the first place and led to him being removed from her care.

You could always apply to the court to stop all contact based on the way the mother is behaving and how it is affecting the child.

Please contact the service to which you were referred in the post of 5th August 2015 so you can get advice about private law proceedings which any application to the court would be.

I hope you will find this helpful.

Best wishes

Suzie

Tia
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: contact issues

Postby Tia » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:47 pm

Hi

Thank you for getting back to me! We have been wrongly advised by ss and they have informed us that there is child arrangement order. Our nephew still does not want to see them and they have got lawyer involved stating we breaking order. So we got ours back involved as we feel that they are unstable to be around him and we are safe guarding him and also putting he wishes first, understand we can be done for this but we can not force him and we feel the way they are acting is not a normal people, they turned up today shouting abuse outside our house our nephew was crying upset saying don't want to see them, we rang the police and yet again it's just logged, we currently have police involved and they have put a file to cps for harassment on the mother. Before we got him they both had supervised court in the contact centre.

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 469
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:25 am

Re: contact issues

Postby Suzie, FRG Adviser » Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:43 pm

Hi Tia,

Thank you for posting and letting us know how things are going.
I am sorry that things are still very difficult to the extent that you have had to involve the police. What are children services doing? The police may have made a referral to them as the dispute involves your nephew.

Have you contacted children services about support around contact?

We have some good information on our website about how children services could best manage contact when children are placed within the friend and family network.


Given the current difficulties in relation to the parents contact, and how upset your nephew is, the court may be the best place for contact to be reviewed.


You say there is a child arrangements order. Is that in relation to a “contact order” or do you mean that your nephew is legally with you under a child arrangement order not a special guardianship order?
There is potentially more help and support for families when children are placed under a special guardianship order. (For example, to help with contact and to access therapeutic support.)
It might be worth discussing this with your solicitor.

Please post back if you have any questions or need further advice.

Best wishes,

Suzie


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