Different needs

DGJ
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:15 pm

Different needs

Postby DGJ » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:41 am

So here I am very confused and concerned.
I have 1 child under sgo (9) and one baby (5 month old)that is becoming sgo in few weeks....
The 9year old has a level of 7 times a year but this has been cut down (5 times)because of the childs wishes and feelings. The contact which has been proposed for baby is recommended same as 9 year old ........No amount just says same amount..I have brought it up that the 9 years old contact are gradually reducing more and more due to the issues but they are still advising babys to be the same level ..Is this right ...
And for question 2 ..Father of baby has been proposed twice a year supervised contact but is asking for a contact order..
I find this strange as the father has finding a fact against him and the only reason they have given him this is for identity reasons coundnt this be done through indirect contact..
There is also a prohibed steps order against him for the 9 year old.....Im waiting on what the guardian says but just wondered what everyone else thinks about this...

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
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Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:25 am

Re: Different needs

Postby Suzie, FRG Adviser » Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:04 pm

Dear DGJ,

Welcome back to the friends and family discussion board and thank you for posting!

If you have not seen it yet, have a look at our advice sheet Special guardianship orders .

Pages 6 to 8 deal with the court application and how the court decides whether or not a contact order should be made.
Best wishes,

Suzie

Concerned2013
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:52 am

Re: Different needs

Postby Concerned2013 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:42 am

Universal Convention on Rights of the Child

Article 9
1. States Parties shall ensure that a child shall not be separated from his or her parents against their will, except when competent authorities subject to judicial review determine, in accordance with applicable law and procedures, that such separation is necessary for the best interests of the child. Such determination may be necessary in a particular case such as one involving abuse or neglect of the child by the parents, or one where the parents are living separately and a decision must be made as to the child’s place of residence.

2. In any proceedings pursuant to paragraph 1 of the present article, all interested parties shall be given an opportunity to participate in the proceedings and make their views known.

3. States Parties shall respect the right of the child who is separated from one or both parents to maintain personal relations and direct contact with both parents on a regular basis, except if it is contrary to the child’s best interests.



It is up to applicant (Children Services, yourself ) to provide factual evidence to the Judge that the child is suffering or likely to suffer significant harm and it would be in the child's best interest to interfere in Article 9 and interdependent rights of the child.
Signed

disillusioned with the whole process, but will continue to fight for justice to the last breath.

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ied53
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Re: Different needs

Postby ied53 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:15 am

A bit confused with your post - is the birth father same for both children? It is usual for both children to be treated the same if they share bp. It can cause resentment within they siblings if one seems to be favoured more than the other. If not then the level of contact should be appropriate to the needs and interests of the child. It seems to be that the bf is advised 2 a year I can see no value in him having a contact order. That means you Have to do the contact as it is ordered by the court. Experience has taught me it is usually the birth parents that alters things by failing to come. The carers change the level accordingly or due to the child being put in danger . I am aware that there are carers who get "fed with contact" " see little value in " but it is and has to be about the children and not the carers needs and wishes. It must always be remembered we are caring for someone else's children. Contact is essential for the child to know there parents BUT it has to be safe , have value and it is YOUR right as the child's guardian to vary the level - including increase the level if things are going well. It is YOUR right and DUTY to protect the child if it isn't. concerned2013 quotes the legal wording below BEFORE the court have ruled on placing a child elsewhere the laws and regulations then change to protect the child within a placement so no longer apply. Why has the birth father been offered so little contact? what of the birth mother?
Irene
Grandparent carer in Lincolnshire
Tough times never last tough people do

DGJ
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:15 pm

Re: Different needs

Postby DGJ » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:52 am

Thank you for the replies, Lets clear this up a bit...

The children have same mother but different fathers...The father has only been offered twice a year because of findings against him in court and he deemed a serious risk to children(this only being for baby).....Mother is getting 5 times with 9 year old at the moment but if things don't improve this will drop more....Mother has been offered "Same as 9 year old" with the baby which i have questioned due to the baby not having any wishes or feelings yet and there being different needs .This bit of info basically tells me to drop baby's contact if the 9 year olds drop down more and this what the sw says they expect so they are not treated differently...


The father is asking for a contact order because he wants more contact ..But i have prohibed steps order against him for the 9 year old as she has been abused by him...I know what a contact order means but it woundn't really be a good thing based on the 9 year old or the serious risk or findings against him..

I just wondered though why has the father been offered 2 times a year supervised instead of indirect surely with the risks involved this would be better for the baby when older...

Concerned2013
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:52 am

Re: Different needs

Postby Concerned2013 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:56 am

ied53 wrote: it is YOUR right as the child's guardian to vary the level - including increase the level if things are going well. It is YOUR right and DUTY to protect the child if it isn't. concerned2013 quotes the legal wording below BEFORE the court have ruled on placing a child elsewhere the laws and regulations then change to protect the child within a placement so no longer apply. Why has the birth father been offered so little contact? what of the birth mother?


You are legally bound by a court ruling and so are other parties. If carer or another party requires change to that ruling then they must seek permission from the court.

Interference in rights can only be done via judicial review as explained here

except when competent authorities subject to judicial review determine, in accordance with applicable law and procedures


Government representatives like Children Services would not need Family courts if this were not the case.


Here is a summary of Rights of the Child which came into force in 1990

http://www.unicef.org.uk/Documents/Publ ... ummary.pdf
Signed

disillusioned with the whole process, but will continue to fight for justice to the last breath.

DGJ
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:15 pm

Re: Different needs

Postby DGJ » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:51 pm

The Guardian's view has now been received and the guardian is contesting the La plans for direct contact twice a year she wants a contact order for indirect contact twice a year and has asked the La to change there final care plan..

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ied53
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Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:26 pm

Re: Different needs

Postby ied53 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:30 pm

I'm sure they will sort it if there is no contact order you can vary the advisory. if a contact order then you have to adhere to it. There must be reasons why a "no contact" or indirect contact is made and that is for the court to decide. Quite rightly Concerned quotes you are legally bound if there is a contact order and ONLY the court can vary said order. If no specific order but an advisory level in the plan (as is in most cases) then you are the guardian ARE free to make changes . I would always say needs to be in the child's interests ONLY and not for our convenience or dislike. That also means allowing more contact at your discretion. In our case we were advised against Maternal family contact except for 2 relatives and they have always been encouraged. The bp reduced the contact themselves so for us that has not been an issue. The children come as a package they have other relatives too and that needs to be taken into consideration. But if the court say No then no it is . Once the order is granted that is the law that applies not the family law protecting the parents rights. We have all known cases where in justice appears to have been done that is for others to prove and us not to take risks with the charges in our care. We do need to be open to change.
Irene

Grandparent carer in Lincolnshire

Tough times never last tough people do

DGJ
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:15 pm

Re: Different needs

Postby DGJ » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:54 pm

Hi all,
Update is that SGO is granted ...Also dad been given an indirect recommendation of twice a year and birth mum 5 times direct contact.
thanks for all the advice

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ied53
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Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:26 pm

Re: Different needs

Postby ied53 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:14 am

Wonderful news
Irene

Grandparent carer in Lincolnshire

Tough times never last tough people do


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