Back in court again!

[Cellbar]

Hi

I am due in court again next week with the mother who is trying to vary the SGO to prefent us going abroad with our g/d (we have an SGO and she has lived with us for 3 and half years now) we were given leave of the Court to take her abroad as it has always been our intention to live abroad at some point in the future.

The mother is trying to prevent this from happening as we wanted to be abroad for when the g/d started school in September this year. What are the chances of her getting her own way with this? It means she can dictate our lives if she can get it overturned and thats just not fair!

She is also trying to get increased contact (though the section 7 report did not give her what she wanted) which we also disagree with. She never asks about her daughter, never phones, texts or writes, she pays nothing towards her support or upbringing and shows no interest in her at all - just gets stroppy when her daughter does not want to go to her during contact sessions!

I am worried that they will come down on the side of the mother which means my life will have to be put on hold - can they do this?

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We are the only ones who make life difficult...

[Cellbar]

Contact is currently once every three months - this was partly due to our intentions of living abroad and the fact that the mother was 'troublesome' - manipulative and controlling and the least contact the better for the child.

Bear in mind we lived abroad and only came back to take on the g/d. The court papers say that they want to prevent the move abroad now, at this time, and that we could apply to go at some point in the future! It seems totally pointless to me and a complete waste of tax payers money!!

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We are the only ones who make life difficult...

[fatcat]

i have found a few cases where the person wishing to relocate won their case. the court has already granted permission, but it seems from what you say, that mother has been given leave to appeal. this doesn't mean that she will get her own way. in these three cases, it doesn't actually seem that the contesting parents had done anyhting wrong to the children; just that the adults' relationship had ended.

the court will want to hear from you about what positive steps you will make to promote contact, such as email, skype, visits back to the UK. the court will also consider the harm that mother has done to the child, and also her lack of interest in contact to date. for mother, it seems to be more a case of ' you don't know what you've got till it's gone.'

best of luck


http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed79597
http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed68567
http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed52979

[fatcat]

its just occurred to me that you can remove the child for up to three months at a time, without needing permission of the court or any body else with PR. anyway you could live abroad and com back within 11 and a half weeks, can this work aound school holidays?

as SG you can choose school, GP etc without having to consult

[Cellbar]

Thanks for the info guys - brilliant as ever.

We were told that when we live abroad, we only had to make the g/d 'available for contact' - surely it is not down to us to come back every three months? Parents will have to put themselves out too at some point. In fact, the order says something around this - I'll check that out actually.

I know we can take her abroad for 3 months without permission but I basically want to go and be able to get on with our lives and not keep being hauled into court every few months, its just ridiculous and apart from anything else, why would I agree to change the SGO now only to try and change it again later at my own expense??!

Surely if we decide to go in the next couple of months in preparation for schooling, they can't prevent us as we already have leave to make the move?

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We are the only ones who make life difficult...

[Kate]

Hi Cellbar, just wishing you luck. This must be so stressful and frustrating. Hopefully once you're living abroad (which sounds very likely to materialise given that this has been known about and agreed in the past) the mother will stop pulling these stunts - surely even she will realise she's on a hiding to nothing then.

[youngagain]

Hi Cellbar, Spain is quite close as far as abroad is concerned say 2 and a half hours flight so the mother could come out a few times a year if she wanted to and its not prohibitively expensive.From the overview of the cases that fatcat refers to it looks like that you need to demonstrate to the court that you promote contact and have not or intend to limit or stop it. i know that going to spain would limit it but in the eyes of the court it is more important that they know that you are fully aware of the effect that the permanent move would have on the child and if you proposed a plan for contact that would help.

I think that if the mother is intent on making your life hell then it may take some time to get a final decision on the move as she can argue all sorts of things. As fatcat pointed out, you can go for three months at a time and work it that way but I would be very careful not to appear to be manipulating this rule against the welfare of the child. I am not saying you intend to or indeed would but if it appears that way then I would advise caution. I know that all of us that take on these children do so for very unselfish reasons and at no small expense both in terms of time and emotional upheaval and I hope you manage to get to spain, it seems so unfair sometimes that we sacrifice so much only to be hauled back in to court just for getting on with our lives. Best of luck.

[David Roth]

Cellbar, just to reiterate what ied53 has already pointed out: when the SGO was originally made, it was on the basis that you were planning to move abroad. The court was aware of this, but still made the order, and planned contact accordingly.

As long as there has been no substantial change in circumstances since then, and as long as you are still offering mum the same level of contact that you were proposing when the order was made, then I find it hard to see a court doing anything that would prevent you from going ahead with this plan.

There are bound to be some nerves in the build-up to the court hearing. I only hope that it can be dealt with quickly enough that it does not hold up your plans.

David R
FRG Policy Adviser

[ajc]

Hi Cellbar
We have the same specific steps order in our SGO too, luckily for us mum hasnt challenged this yet. We planned to go abroad long before all this with the g/c happened.
I know just to get that specific steps order that you will have already proved to the court whats what in your choosen country as we had to do, with info on schools, health, support,and importantly how your going to help facilitate contact, ie internet web camera, skype access ect....
We also rightly pointed out that it takes two to facilitate this and we were not going to bring the g/c to uk every time. That the parents and other family had responsibility to visit the g/c too. The judge agreed with us re others responsibility. I layed out how we would do this ie locating accomodation, and sorting out transport on our side BUT not being responsible financially for any costs re contact.
I cannot understand why mum is now challenging this now what will she gain and what has changed?
Our mum challenged us at the time but we stuck with it saying that yes, we recognise the loss that mum and dad will face but if we cannot carry out our plan then the children will go into care system and ultimatly adoption,and be lost to all birth families, and prehaps be split up, so everyone will lose, and most importantly the children will be the major losers. I must admit it took some guts on our part, but remember that you must configure yourself in this, we had put things in place long before our g/c were dropped on us,everyone in our family was aware of our plans and it was not to thwart contact with mum or Dad, and my argument was that if we remained in this country then I would face working until I dropped.
We too are what I call stuck here due to the current ecomomic climate, and our plans that are now a little behind schedual but fortunatly this particular cloud had a silver lining. Another year will see us off just in time for the eldest to enter school.
We cannot wait.
Let me know how you go on please. All the best with this.

Keep on keeping on

[Cellbar]

Well its court tomorrow so only time well tell I suppose - it really is wearing me down now and I just want an end to it. I do hope we can make the judge see where we are coming from. We are planning a visit abroad in the next few weeks (recoup after my op) and boy do I wish I didn't have to come back! [:I]

Wish me luck and thanks to everyone for your advice and words of encouragement and support, they really are invaluable.

Chin up..........

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We are the only ones who make life difficult...