Mother opposing SGO... what are our chances?

[annabell1]

Hi everyone,

For the last year we have been going through the courts trying to get an SGO. We currently have a RO, we have been assessed by the LA who are in favour (and are funding the application) and have a final hearing soon.

Despite admitting that she does not want the child returned to her, the biological mother is opposing the SGO. Her only reason being is that she thinks we do not need it.
At this final hearing I have been listed as a witness, as is the bio mother and the social worker who compiled the report. I am terrified of speaking in court.

Any idea on what our chances of success are? How much weight do they give the opinion of the biological parents

Many thanks,

Annie

[Robin D]

I guess her solicitor has told her of the 'no order' principle. You really need to find evidence as to why you do need it. Has she ever contested a decision unreasonably, tried to upset the placement with you, or exercised her PR to the child's detriment. If so, you need to present that as evidence.

However, even if not, SS must have reason to support the order as they will fully understand the no order principle.

Giving evidence in the family courts is nothing like they show on TV but can still be daunting. I suspect most people here will tell you that the reality is nowhere near as bad as they thought it might be. The important things to remember are:
1. Tell the truth.
2. Avoid 'slagging off' the mother.
3. Tell the truth.
4. Give your replies to questions to the judge, not the person asking the question. This can be difficult but the judge will understand if you get it wrong.
5. Tell the truth.
6. If you feels rattled, smile and stay polite.
7. If you need a break - ask.
8. Oh, and in case you don't realise, its important you only tell the truth.

Most people in our position will have no difficulty with points 1, 3, 5, and 8 above but the 'other side' may have a lot of difficulty!

I guess the other thing to remember is that you are doing this only because you care. That will come through against those that are doing it because they think its their right.

Good luck and try not to fret too much.

best wishes ...... Robin

[annabell1]

Thank you so much for your reply.

It's a bit of a complicated background... the LA asked us to look after the little one for 2 weeks to give mum a break (she has drink/drug issues). 4 1/2 years later and little one is still here. After 2 months the LA said that they'd like to assess us as foster carers and unfortunately this just never happened. They fobbed us off each time we called until eventually they told us that our case had been closed. We had heard nothing of this.

Mum had not attempted any real contact in the first 3 years except for late night drunken phone-calls. She seemed to pull herself together in the last 2 years and we allowed contact which turned out to be a shambles. At this point the LA would not even give us an appointment. In desperation and fear of mum simply coming to collect the child, I contacted a local councillor who helped me enormously and managed to get me an appointment with the manager of children's services in our area.

From that point we have been helped 100% by the LA and it was in fact their suggestion that we aim for SGO. I believe the residency order is an interim residency order which was to protect us until assessments etc had been made for the SGO.

I've thought about our reasons for wanting the SGO and I think our main reason is that with the RO, mum is able to drag us back to court whenever she feels like. She gets legal aid, we do not and our legal fees help from the LA is only going to be for this SGO application. We are of the understanding that with an SGO, mum must ask leave of the court to bring us back ( I hope this is correct?) and that this provides more protection for us in the long term.

Also, the little one sees this as our home and we want her to feel that she is 100% a part of the family and that we did whatever we could to protect her legally. This is as close to adoption as we can get.

Thanks for advice on giving evidence. I know i'll be able to do it it's just the knowing i'm going to have to do it if that makes sense.

Kind Regards,

Annie

[nanaJ]

I agree that an SGO is always preferable to an RO. We only have an RO as CAFCASS opposed an SGO for one grandchild, but it was supported by the Local Authority.

Your sentiments that it will make the child feel a more secure part of the family are correct. However, please be aware that an SGO will not stop the mother taking you back to court. An SGO does not preclude a contact application to the court and contact can be attached as part of the order. Contact is generally the most problematic aspect of any order in these situations and is by it's nature contentious. It is something others on this site have highlighted and it has been an issue for them.

However, I have just been taken back to court for the 30th time in five years with a residence order. I have had four attempts to enforce the order and punish me, all of which have failed. However, this does not stop the stress of the continual court appearances for our family.

If the Local Authority are supporting you, that is positive. However, the Judge will speak to the mother and ascertain why she opposes an SGO. Our daughter felt that her role would become that of an "auntie" rather than a mother and she simply could not handle this. It is hard to separate the feelings for your own child from those of the child you wish to secure within the family.

I like Robin's comments about "tell the truth". It certainly hasn't done me much good but then our opponent is a damn good liar!

[Suzie, FRG Adviser]

Hi Annie

My name is Suzie and I am an adviser at Family Rights Group. I just wanted to make a quick post to clarify a legal point that you raised.

You stated that you understood mum would have to ask for leave of the court to bring matters back to court once an SGO is in place.

As nanaJ has said, however, Mum will still have the right to make an application to court if there is a dispute about a significant issue (such as choice of school or contact for example).

If mum keeps on applying to court to challenge lots of decisions you make, the court can stop them doing this if it is becoming unreasonable.

An SGO is a significantly more stable order than, for example, a RO, however. As a special guardian, you will have ‘exclusive’ parental responsibility for the child which means you can decide things for the child without having to discuss it with mum.

If you haven't already, I would advise you to have a read through our SGO advice sheet as this is very detailed about the implications of an SGO aswell as the process of applying for one/ options for accessing support etc.

Hope this helps.

Best Wishes

Suzie
FRG Adviser

[annabell1]

Thank you all for your replies. I have read through the SGO advice sheets on here and have been trawling the net for info The final hearing is fast approaching and things are not going well at the moment with contact. My sister has overnight contact once a month which was going okay at first but is becoming more 'unsatisfactory' (for want of a better word) as the weeks go on.

Things are bad enough for me to say that I doubt very much that she or the child could cope with increased contact although I know she is requesting whole weekends at the final hearing.and xmas/birthdays/holidays

At the moment, the Mum is taking no notice of what I have to say and has gotten to the point where she is deliberately (I feel) doing this to push the boundaries. An example I could give is that written within the contact order is that she must not drink alcohol during contact yet she will take little one to bars/ pubs or have her friends around drinking at her house.... and insist that it's fine as she isn't drinking.

Another is that the SW wrote in her assessment (for contact) that it would not be advisable for the biological fathers family to be involved until further risk assessments had been carried out. She has completely ignored this and taken little one visiting them.
My other major concern is that Little one has told me she is transported during contact in Mums car. Mum has had license revoked and of course, car is uninsured and has no appropriate child restraints. I have no proof of this and Mum denies it but I see no reason why the child would lie.

There are MANY more issues around contact, this is just a few.

Social worker is concerned and said that contact may have to be investigated further and to mention it to our solicitor which we will of course.

I am getting so stressed out about contact that I haven't given enough thought to the final hearing. I feel convinced more than ever that SGO is the way forward. We need the ability to be able to say No when needed and for our decisions to be final instead of feeling pushed around.

Sorry for the rant.

Many thanks

[Robin D]

Its so important that you write all this down as it happens, so it can be presented as notes made at the the time. You don't need proof. You can say in your final statement that on [date] the child told you that she had been to [location] in Mummy's car and Mummy drove. If you can get her to repeat it to other people all to the better because you can say that the child said to or in front of [named person]. Ditto that on [date] she told you she had been to see [name of relative not supposed to be having contact]. Although its not concrete evidence, it all forms part of the overall picture. You can also put in your final statement that Mum told you on [date] that its fine to take the child to the pub or have her drunk friends around, provided she is not drinking.

Keep telling the truth and please try not to fret too much. I know that's easy to say, but please don't let your stress affect the little one. We've been there.

Best wishes ..... Robin

[annabell1]

Thanks for your replies, they are much appreciated. Final statement in response to her statement has been filed and am happy with what has been said. I carry on recording anything relevant in my log in this is proving to be crucial as it's so difficult to remember date/times/ events without it.

Thanks Again,I will keep you updated.

[alice12]

Iwas the only witness except the social worker no one else gave evidence as they offered no contest or such like after I gave evidence keep to the facts if you dont understand the question ask them to repeat and just be honest .You dont need to make any personal comments re bio mum good luck fingers crossed for you it took us 3 years but has been so worth it.

[annabell1]

Hello Again,

Well I have news, some is amazing and some is not quite so great but.... we got the SGO last week We are over the moon. Everyone at court was so kind and understanding, I feel that we have been really lucky and of course I thank all on here that chipped in with well-needed advice.

Unfortunately mum has taken it quite badly and we are now the subject of hundreds of Facebook comments. I get an astonishing amount of texts calling me every name under the sun and she has recruited friends to email me abuse. They are ridiculing the way I look, saying my husband cheats on me, threatening to email my husbands colleagues, calling us drug addicts.....the list goes on.

I am dreading contact handover. Is she really able to call me C*** and B**** and expect me to quietly do handover? I have told my social worker and solicitor but i'm not sure what they can do about it.

Any advice?