Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Nanny G
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Postby Nanny G » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:21 pm

Hello everyone,

Well, it went back to court on 24th June. Mum wanted joint care, but it was decided that would be too disruptive for my Granddaughter, that she should be in one place or the other, and that mum wouldn't be able to cope with her and new baby full time not only SW and guardians opinion, but her own admission so My Granddaughter went to live with Dad, my son full time. He took a couple of weeks off work, the first she remained in foster care, but spent every day with him getting used to each other, the second week he was with him full time. It was a big jump for both of them, now he has been back at work a week and Granddaughter has been here every day with me looking after her - more adjustments for her.
CS have a supervision order and it has been said they should help the parents with communication and mediation sessions, but SW says it is not in her order, it must be a different one, they will have to wait...
My son had hoped to at least double Granddaughters hours at nursery, from 15 free, to 30, but until the extra benefits come through to top up his income he cant afford it.
My Grandaughter has been having fun here, and done a bit of falling over but nothing major, just a few bumps and bruises.
Mum is now complaining to dad that Grandaughter has bruises and why , what has she been doing...? They have a contact book, where they keep note of what happens and has both their phone numbers in it. The first contact mum had with her, Granddaughter was just getting over a tummy bug, in that she was sick that morning. Mum was made aware in view of new baby but decided it was ok, and Grand Daughter was excited to be going to see mum and baby sister, so contact went ahead. Mum wrote in the book, that they went into town shopping with her mum (maternal grandmother) and that grandaughter was quiet and didn't eat. Granddaughter was very subdued and at very least tired for the next day, but had been ill so we put it down to that. Next week again Granddaughter was excited to be going to mum, but had to get up early, and had a new school starters gathering at the school for september intake. She came back from mums saying 'i don't feel very well' and half an hour later was in tears and inconsolable. Son and i tried to take her to the school but she wouldn't stop crying all through the story, so we took her outside, tried to chat to her teacher, but still not stopping so we brought her back to here (it's the local school to me) for a while before Son took her home. She cheered up once away from the school and was very happy and back to normal when she was home. Mum wrote in the book they went to her (maternal) grandparents for a family gathering and that Grandaughter had been quiet to start but joined in after a while. That evening she rang my son up and started complaining about the bruises on Grand Daughters legs, and started trying to argue with him so he told he r he saw no need for this conversation, and put the phone down on her (none of this was mentioned in the book, in writing.just mum doing what she has always done and trying to get him under her thumb and under control) . Granddaughter had a very restless night that night after contact and was very tired and subdued the following day.
Mum has now expressed concerns to SW for Granddaughters welfare and CS want to send someone out to do a welfare check. Son is convinced it will all go back to court again and this time he will loose and Granddaughter will end up with mum.

Mum has a history of lying, making false allegations and has proven time and again she only cares about herself and spite for my son, not for her daughter's welfare. She has been very good previously at lying to CS, which was what led to Grand Daughter going into care, and to us, who know her, she is just doing the sweetly innocent reformed new caring mummy act.
we know that while she was at her family gathering there would have been a lot of loud talking about what was going on, how CS would have been unfair and how Granddaughter should belong with mum, and mum having rights, and entitlements to her daughter ect... which will affect Granddaughter even if noone thinks she is listening.

Poor Granddaughter has had so much going on in her life the last few weeks, her world has turned upside down. She has gone from contact centre contact to unsupervised with her mum and that means back to mums flat, where Granddaughter used to live, which must be confusing for her. She woke up one morning being told she was going to live with daddy and had daddy in Foster home every day with her, then she went to live with daddy at his new house for a week, now to me during the day while he is at work. She is coping with it all remarkably well, but is going to take time to settle down.

Personally i think making a sick child walk round town is not good parenting, also a large family gathering of people granddaughter hasn't seen before is also too overwhelming.

What are your opinions, and thoughts on all the above? Can it go back to court so soon, as in, under what circumstances could/would it?

all advice and reassurance much appreciated

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Suzie, FRG Adviser
Posts: 497
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:25 am

Re: Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Postby Suzie, FRG Adviser » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:21 pm

Dear NannyG

Thank you for posting again with an update.

It is really good news that things have worked out in favour of your son so he is able to care for his daughter. He is very lucky to have you to provide additional support.

You have had very good advice from ied53 and the benefit of her experience caring for her grandchildren.

It is absolutely right that it will take time for your granddaughter to settle down into her new routines. Children are resilient and hopefully it will not take her too long. The difficulty for her is likely to come from any mixed messages that she receives from her mother during contact could make the process a little slower. Maybe your son can discuss this with the social worker if he thinks contact is having an adverse effect on your granddaughter.

The fact that there is a supervision order means that children services should be assisting on issues relating to your granddaughter which can include contact if problems arises.

Ied53 is right regarding the way the mother is going to behave now the court proceedings have ended. She is likely to want to show children services that the wrong decision was made and she is able to care for her daughter despite acknowledging that she could not cope. Your son will have to try hard to be patient and rise above all the she will throw at him and you. Children services are quite used to dealing with parents like this and will be able to see through what she is trying to do.

I suggest that you and your son continue to make life as normal as possible for your granddaughter recognising that she will have good days and bad. Hopefully, once she is able to do more hours at nursery and develop her own circle of friends, she will have parties to attend, she will settle down. You will both also have to make light of any behaviour she displays after contact and carry on as normal. Your granddaughter will hopefully settle into life with her father since that was what she wanted.

When there is a supervision order, children services can sometimes have a very light touch but if your son needs advice and support he should ask for it whilst the order is there.

I hope you find this helpful but if you wish to speak to an adviser, please telephone our advice line on 0808 801 0366. The advice line is open Monday to Friday from 9.30 a.m. to 3.00 p.m.

Best wishes,

Suzie

Nanny G
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Postby Nanny G » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:07 pm

Thank you both for your replies,
Irene - sadly, no i guess we didn't really expect it to change once the court was over, but not having had any dealings with mum for several months and being reassured by CS that she had changed and matured, there was a glimmer of hope that maybe they were right.

Due to the exhausted and distraught state Granddaughter was in last week after contact SW decided to change it to Friday this week so Granddaughter could have a quiet morning and go to the school in the afternoon. Weds worked and she had a lovely time at the school. The teacher and Family Liaison officer came out to do a home visit that afternoon and both said what a different child she was to the crying wreck they saw last week. Son explained to them the situation and what had happened that had led to the court case and decson, and was still going on and the FLO has said she often has dealings and meeting with CS and is happy at any point if he needs back up to say how Granddaughter is at school.

My son seems to be settling into it quite well now, and Granddaughter now in her second week here is settling into us a little more too, she is a very lively and demanding child that craves attention, which will be due to her unsettled life, but is starting to learn to calm down a little if you take the time to explain things to her.

Son had a phone call from Mum today, saying that she was annoyed at being changed to Friday this week as it wasn't so convenient for her, and that SW had told her not to take child into town, which again was annoying as she had planned on doing that... Son explained it was he who had asked SW if child could have a quieter day this time as she had been so distraught and also had Nursery that afternoon so didn't need to be dragged around town before Nursery. Mum then said she hadnt been aware she was taking child to nursery and asked how long she had her for. Son told her she had her until 1, as set out in the court order of 4 hours.. 'oh have i got to feed her then?' yes, you have her for lunch then take her to nursery ' oh i haven't got anything in, i'll have to see if my mum can sort some food out' . She was also complaining at having to get child to Nursery too as its other side of town to her... Son just told her basically that it was tough, that was what the court said, was all part of contact and being a parent and she had been told so she should be more organised and think about what she is doing for her daughter.
We will see how she is after contact this time round, having a quiet morning and going to nursery in the afternoon, where she is happy and familiar and loves being. If she is ok this time, then we will know it was probably just the exhaustion, if she shows signs of being upset again then Son may well have to raise concerns with the SW
Thank you again for your reassurance,
I will keep you updated

Nanny G
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Postby Nanny G » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:21 pm

More updates
It was contact with mum and baby sister again today. This time mum got her mum (maternal grandmother) to pick her up and take her to sisters (aunt) who has 4 children of her own, the youngest being the same age as my granddaughter.
Apparently Aunt's partner was in bed, so the children were told to be quiet. later on partner got up, and was cross with the two little ones (my granddaughter and her cousin) for being in the kitchen and shouted at them and pulled them out by their arms and smacked them! Contact ended at 1pm, where mum took my granddaughter to nursery for the afternoon and my son picked her up at 5 pm, which was when she told him all about her day with mummy. He came in to me on his way home and looked at her arms, and the left one still had a mark on it! he rang the SW who said it was too late to do anything now but she would get onto it first thing in the morning.
I played with Granddaughter for a while this evening, and she was very bossy and very full of attitude, i had to be very firm with her about not barking orders at me, she was very hard work, and very much like her mothers side of the family, who do shout or 'bark' orders at each other.

My son rang me this evening, Granddaughter had been in bed 40 mins, then started half waking up crying from dreams. In the half an hour he was on the phone, she woke like this 3 times.

Son had a meeting with sw today, they have a new one taking over so it was the two SW's and my son. Mum decided she couldn't go, as she had to feed the baby at 2pm, The new SW explained that the supervision order meant that basically my son was under probation that if he messed up in his parenting with his daughter that there would be no messing about, it would go straight back to court, no second chances. It was also said that the parents had each others phone numbers for when they needed them, not so that mum could ring dad up and complain about the bruises on the child, ask was she feeding her this week, could he pick child up it was too far to walk her to nursery etc ... that notes should be put in the contact book and anything else should go through the sw's.

Other than the SW being on the case tomorrow, where does my son stand with regards to stopping contact if he felt it was not in his daughters interests to see her mother? Obviously this would not be a decision to be taken lightly, and it would have to be his to make (not mine) but out of interest, does he have that much power under a supervision order or does he have to let the sw's decide on that one?

Nanny G
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Postby Nanny G » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:30 pm

Thanks Irene, The SW was going to speak to Granddaughter at nursery today and talk to her about her visit to mummy and what she did ect,
It was already in the court notes last year that my Granddaughter had said Aunts partner 'smashed me'. I wish CS would actually do something rather than sit around making excuses about lack of evidence.
There was an incident over a year ago when Granddaughter had a burn mark over her eye, and said that mums b/f did it. When asked, Mum gave several different accounts of how child had run into an ashtray, bumped into a cigarette mum was holding and no idea how she got it, no one smoked around her... nothing was done due to 'lack of evidence'

Granddaughter is always unsettled the night after contact, wakes up crying through the night and nearly always has a quiet, tired ,withdrawn and or clingy day the next day.
This time round she has been very clingy and cuddly all day yesterday and this morning.

It obviously isnt working for her, and its due to be reviewed with a view to increasing to a whole day when she goes to School full time.
it makes me so mad!

Nanny G
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Postby Nanny G » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:00 pm

ok, Sw went to see Granddaughter at nursery, is quite happy with her and Granddaughter didn't say anything so nothing more can or needs to be done...!
My son is fuming, and says he isnt going to let it drop. This is a man CS themselves said in a report he was obviously violent and further investigations should be made if Aunt wanted to keep the child under a temporary care agreement.... Aunt changed her mind and said she didn't want to, so Granddaughter went into foster care (probably the best thing that ever happened to her).

Nanny G
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Postby Nanny G » Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:42 pm

to a degree i understand, but how much does the child have to take and how much damage has to be done before anyone does anything...? And when they did have evidence (burn mark on child's face, and child saying to SW that mums b/f had done it they said there was nothing they could do as mum denied it...!

I will make sure if anything else happens like this photographs are taken.

Nanny G
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Postby Nanny G » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:22 pm

i accept it was only one incident, and 1 burn mark, and as you say if they go in too heavy handed too soon they risk any further abuse being hidden. I guess also its a hard one to prove too, however i cannot see how a child 'walking into an ashtray' or 'bumping into mums cigarette' can cause a burn mark. For a cigarette to burn it has to be held in place quite some time. it could have been an iron, that would have made sense, but was not the reason given.
At the end of the day it is al in the past now, the burn incident was about 2 years ago, however it has always annoyed me that it was taken at face value.
Then again It was said by CS that the b/f needed to be away form the child, and mum with her baby was also at risk form him, to which she agreed and 'took the bold and brave move to split from him to protect herself, her daughter and unborn child...' which she didn't, and neither did she separate herself form my son at the time (nor he her) but instead they all lied and spun a complicated story to CS about how they were no longer incontact... which when found out is what led to care proceedings.
So i guess, overall taking mum at her word, all was supposedly safe.

Nanny G
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Re: Further update, more advice/reassurance needed

Postby Nanny G » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:36 pm

just to add insult to injury, the 'final verdict' on the matter of Aunts partner and dragging children out of kitchen leaving marks...

SW's manager has spoken to mum, who says that is ridiculous, of course it wouldn't happen and if it had she wouldn't take child back again...

so obviously as she is such a reformed character these days it is the two of them starting up tit for tat again as mum has complained about dad because child had grown out of her clothes, 'had to give her calpol' (for a cough) so has raised issues with SW's as tot he childs welfare.

so basically they are both being immature children again, and Son is 'getting back' at mum by saying these things...!

Granddaughter hasn't said anything to me, but i saw the mark on her arm and i witnessed how clingy and unsettled she was that night and the few days after.

I have told son , if it ever happens again to take pictures, they (hopefully) cant deny that

so fuming right now!!

Hopefully, for child's sake it doesn't happen again. However, i would love CS to be proved wrong!


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