Re Return of an old Sibling Carer advice please?

[laura355]

Hello everyone,
Its been quite a while since I posted on here but I could really do with some advice. I will try to keep it as brief as possible as this has been going on for 9 years!
My little sister is 9 years old and we have looked after her (always through a 'private family arrangements') since she was 18 months old. sometimes just for over night sometimes for months on end due to our mothers mental health but mainly alcohol issues. we share the same mum but she has a different dad-also an alcoholic, neither of them can proritise my little sister.
Social services have been involved thoughout the whole of her life escalating up and down the continum of need.
My husband and I have been together for 9 years and have a 5 and 1 year old. Sis has now lived with us this time since april 2012 and she is subject to an Interim Care Order and everything has this time gone though the right channels as I think social services have realised the massive boo boo keeping her with her mum for all those years.
Anyway my mum has never and still not had any insight of what impact her lifestyle has had upon my little sis and hence why I have come in search of answers from some of you who have gone thorouh/going through the same situation. We have been assessed as fostercarers and are recieving a basic foster care allowance and now that the court date for a full care order is looming we are being asked to consider a SGO. We can see pros and cons to both but I suppose We would prefer the SGO for sis to be/feel permanent with us and have little social care involvement but feel as though sis has been let down by the system and now they are just trying to palm us off again.
Also Mum has 3 supervised contacts per week and has only once turned up for all 3, she was allowed telephone contact at first and I had to supervise contacts, they are now supervised from the contact team and there should be no phone calls. Mum has called at our house and telephoned on a few occasions over the last few months and I have just put phone down and told her to move on etc but tonight whilst I was at work she has phoned to threaten to smash our home windows. Its been quite a few hours and they are still intact and I would doubt she would to it, however, it has made us all feel quite uneasy and vulnerable. We have now reached the point where we feel she is undermining us and that sis and our own child are become more embroiled in her games and feel it is too unfair to let it continue. There is a court date coming up where I believe contact was going to be discussed and reduced but I feel this should happen now. mum has failed all tests and assessments and it is highly likely that sis will stay here long term so I suppose I would like anyone to give their opinions on SGO vs long term fostercare and contact and if I can voice my opinion to social care in light of tonights event for it to be dramatically reduced before the court date?
thank you for reading x

[David Roth]

Hi Laura355, and welcome back to the discussion forum.

There are some major decisions looming for you, and hopefully some of the carers who read the forum will be able to let you know about their experiences of different types of legal arrangement, and also of managing children's contact. I'd like to just make a few observations on what you've written.

Firstly, it is good news that the local authority are now taking your little sister's need seriously, and getting involved themselves instead of just leaving it to you all the time. This has already had an impact, in that you are being paid a fostering allowance rather than having to meet all the expenses out of your own pocket, with very little help.

If you do decide to go for SGO, then it will help that you are fostering her now, as that means you are entitled to be assessed on your need for financial support and support services as a special guardian. If you do decide to go for SGO however, my advice would be to make sure these assessments are completed before the order is made, and to make sure that the financial and other support that you will get is written into the special guardianship report that is presented to the court. If the local authority is going to pay an SGO allowance, you need to know how much that is going to be before the order is made, so you can decide whether it will be enough to go ahead with getting the order. Some local authorities try to say they will do the assessments after the orders are made, but unfortunately many of them then don't offer very much, and there isn't very much you can do about it then.

The other big issue here is contact. This is the most difficult issue for many family and friends care placements, but it may be particularly difficult for sibling carers — after all, for most people standing up to their parents can be hard to do. The issue of whether to have a contact order for your mother may come up. A contact order can provide the security of knowing exactly how often contact is going to take place, and it may ensure that the local authority supports contact in what sounds like quite a tense situation. However, it can also make it more difficult to be flexible, if you become worried about what happens in contact. There should not be any need for a contact order if you are willing to allow reasonable contact without one. If you have the SGO, then you are in a position to change the arrangements if they are not working out well for your little sister.

[laura355]

Thank you david and Irene,
David it has been nice to know after all of these years that I can still pick up the phone to FRG helpline when needed. It has been much easier this time receiving the foster allowance but more than that, the fact they have taken mum to court has been the only thing we have ever asked and wanted as opposed to us battling it out.
Irene, thank you for your advice with getting the support package in writing beforehand-although I have had many dealings with social workers over the years, I forget that they are not going to tell me everything I should know to secure sis future with us and they often relay on this.
I did speak to the contact team and social worker today as I feel something was probably mentioned yesterday to make mum blow up and phone us. I was also more concerned as she has now progressed onto threats but was advised they would suggest reducing contact this week in court but told us to grin and bear it for now.
Although not new to social care and the systems, I am new to the court process, the social worker has informed me they are in court this week and then it will be a further 4-6 week until the final hearing, they will present us to the permancy panel. They have said they will continue to supervise contact but it should be reduced to once a month.
You both mentioned contact orders, we try to encourage positive contact as much as possible between sis and mum and sis and dad, sis has unsupervised visits to her dad once a week for a couple of hours (when he is not drinking) and this works okay?! We are willing to allow reasonable contact with mum too, she also lets her down often and contact is often not very positive for sis?!

When would a contact order be made and who agrees to this? and what is the frequency likely to be in reality?
Is there anything else I should be aware of in this court arena?
Kind Regards, Laura

[David Roth]

Laura, if the final hearing is going to be in a few weeks time, then I would advice you to start becoming clear about what you would like to come out of that hearing. There are some major points to consider:

If your sister isn't going back to the care of her mum, then the court would probably make a Care Order to the local authority, or a Special Guardianship Order to you.

Under the Care Order, the local authority would get parental responsibility for your sister. You wouldn't get it, but you would continue as her foster carer. If you haven't been through a full fostering assessment already (and you should have been), then you would have to go through one. Your mum wouldn't lose her parental responsibility, but the local authority would be the ones making the decisions. You ought to be well supported as foster carers, with your own linkworker, training offered, and a full fostering allowance being paid to you. You would need to consult the local authority about a lot of the important decisions, eg if you wanted to change your sister's school, or get their agreement to take her abroad on holiday.

Special Guardianship would give you parental responsibility. The local authority would not have it, your mum would still have it, but you would have the exclusive right to exercise it, and you could make most of the important decisions about your sister. The support from the local authority would be a bit more uncertain, which is why I suggested that you get full details about what would be on offer before this order is made. Local authorities tend to pull out their support after an SGO has been made, but if they have made a commitment to supporting you in court then that is something you can try to hold them to.

If you think that you would eventually like an SGO, but still need some support in the near future because of you mother's behaviour at the moment, you could suggest that the court grants a Care Order at the final hearing in a few weeks, and then you apply for the SGO when you feel ready for it at a later date. You might encounter some resistance from the local authority, if they have made up their minds that they want you to go for an SGO now, but this would be an option.

It's possible that a contact order might be made at the final hearing, if your mum asks for one to be made. A contact order specifies how often contact will take place, and the problem when it's made with an SGO is that over time it can become quite restrictive - circumstances change, your sister might want to see more or less of her mum, or you might get worried about things that happen in contact, but the order still requires it to happen at a certain level. If there is an application for a contact order, it ought only to be made if there is a need for one. If you are already keeping to contact arrangements, and acting in the child's best interests, then there would be no grounds for a contact order to be made.

I wondered whether you have your own legal respresentation? From what you have said, my guess would be no. However, if what you want is different from what the local authority wants (eg they want you to go for SGO and you want them to get a Care Order), it could be worth considering this. However, it can be very costly, so you would need to check if the local authority would be willing to pay your legal fees, or if you qualified for legal aid. At the very least, you might want to think about becoming a party to the proceedings, as you do have a large interest in the outcome.

I would say it would be worth speaking to our advice line about the different outcomes at the final hearing, and what steps you might need to take to get the right outcome for you and your sister.

[mick1950]

hi laura,we are fostercarers to 2 of our grandchildren.it took us 2 years of struggling with s/s to get recognition,which was quite costly.in the end we went for a judicial review,and s/s gave in at the last minute.we have now been fostercarers for about 7 years,and s/s still keep trying to get us to apply for s/g.our solicitor still advises us not to go for s/g,as he says there are so many getouts for s/s when it comes to financial assistance.
one problem we have though,now the boys are getting into their teenage years,is that at the outset,when s/s would not give us any support,they never applied for a care order.
now,no one,other than the the boys mum has p/r,so it is very difficult to get passports etc.
it took us 9 weeks to renew their passports,due to s/s insisting it was done through them,and the passport office refusing to recognise their application.yet we applied for their previous one and had no problems.
to date,we have never encountered any problems with medical needs and the like,and we certainly don,t ask permission from s/s when we want to take them abroad.
good luck with whatever you choose.

[David Roth]

Just to pick up a couple of points from the last couple of posts:

Local authorities shouldn't require foster carers (including kin) to get permission from them for children to stay with someone overnight, even although some of them still do so. The government has sent circulars round to local authorities saying that decisions about overnight stays should be delegated to the foster carer, and there should be no requirement that the people the children stay with have a criminal/CRB check. The aim is that fostered children should be able to enjoy as normal a alife as possible, and foster carers should be able to make this decision in the same way as they can do fir their own children. However, you should notify the social worker if he is going to stay away overnight, and as far as possible have this discussion before hand. This is not the same as getting permission though.

The situation about getting permission to take looked after children abroad will very depending on whether the child is accommodated (without a care order, local authority has no parental responsibility, only parents do) or in care (under a care order, local authority has parental responsibility and makes the decisions). If the child is accommodated, then you should at least have a letter from the person who has PR (usually mum) to say you have permission to take the child out the country. If the child is under a care order, you should have a letter from the local authority to authorise this. Although you haven't run into difficulties over this, if customs officials were on an 'abducted child' alert you might find you were being questioned about why you were taking a child out the country who you don't have a legal relationship to.

[laura355]

Hello, Its taken me a little while to get back on to the discussion board, although I have in the meantime phoned the helpline and as always had some fantastic help and advice.

Thank You david, mick1950 & ied53 for your replies, the information gathered on here will be very useful to me it the coming months!

For a little update, ss went back to court, my mother failed to even attend and contact was reduced to once per week which she also failed to attend since court. I have been informed that the final hearing has been set now for a date in early december (not sure if i can/should put it on here!)

Just to cover a few of the points mentioned, we have had a full fostering assessment including medical, references and CRB checks but have not yet been presented to the fostering panel, this has been mentioned but also metioned is us being presented to the permanancy panel. I assume that ss are banking on the fact that we will have a sgo for sis?! Although I do not feel we are being pressured into a sgo and we do feel a sgo is best for sis and us, it appears ss are planning for this anyway.

I have emailed and spoken to the manager and asked to see the friends and family care policy but was informed my authority does not have a specific policy for family and friends . I also mentioned other than 2 booklets regarding sgo, we have not recieved any other information regading fostercare/support etc we do not have a link worker either just the social worker who is lead on the case. The manager informed me that someone else within the team could come and speak to us regarding fostering but the social worker will be drawing up a care plan for sis and the information will be in that. I have also received the minutes from the initial LAC meeting and discovered that the next one is arranged for january. Obviously if we have a sgo before this date then the plan will not be reviewed as there won't be another meeting?

We arn't party to proceedings and I wondered what this entailed?
The CAFCAS worker came out for her second visit and other than hinting that my other children maybe an issue?? she never fed anything back to us, the sw told me that in court she had asked the social worker if there were issues with sis getting along with our children (1 year and 5 years old?) and asked for other family members to be assessed? To my knowledge there are no other family members even wanting contact with sis let alone prepared to bring her up? Its really frustrating these intelligent people who are being paid alot of money do not even read the files and decide in a half hour window what is best for sis. Maybe if they gathered information form health and school, she could build up a better picture of how sis actually is!!

Sorry such a long post turned into a short rant also!
thanks again for your support! Laura

[Robin D]

Hi Laura.

I think we all found the process most frustrating!

In regards to your comment about becoming a party, my personal view is that you should apply to the court to become a party. I suggest you do not mention it to the SW until you submit the application, as in my experience they will actively discourage you from doing so. However, the cost of becoming a party are very low and you can represent yourself. The major benefit is that you get a copy of all the evidence placed before the court, and get to sit in on all hearings, whereas otherwise, you only get told what the SW, the guardian and/or your mother want to tell you.

If you ring or go into the court office, you will find them very helpful. You need to complete a form and pay a small fee and your application will most likely be heard at the next directions hearing.

All that said, there are others here who did not become parties and are happy with the outcome. The choice has to be yours.

Best wishes ...... Robin

[David Roth]

Laura, the council really ought to be presenting you to fostering panel for approval as a foster carer.

They placed your sister with you in April. She has been with you since then under an Interim Care Order, and you are receiving a fostering allowance. This means that you should have been given temporary approval as her foster carer. However, temporary approval can only last for 16 weeks, and be extended for another 8 weeks in exceptional circumstances. After that period of 24 weeks from placement, the guidance is quite clear that if the temporary foster carers have not been given full approval then the child ought to be removed and placed elsewhere. 24 weeks from April would take you roughly to October. I can't imagine the court would be very happy if the local authority were to go back and say they were removing your sister because they hadn't arranged the fostering approval in time, particularly if as you say the assessment has been completed, but you do need to ask them what is happening.

I would also suggest that you formally ask them to assess what support you would need, financial and non-financial, as a special guardian. It isn't automatic that the fostering allowance will continue after an SGO is made, and many carers do find that all the support they were getting drops away once th eorder is made. The best way to ensure you get the support you need is to make sure it is assessed and reported in the special guardianship report to court.

It would be a normal part of an assessment to inquire how the new child going into a family would get on with the children who are there already. In your case, that should be quite easy to answer, as your sister has spent so much time with you and your family already. The guardian should just be able to talk to the children (or the ones who're old enough) about how they get along with each other, and your sister will be able to tell her whether she wants to stay on with you or go somewhere new. The guardian should also ask you about how the children get along together, and how you think you will manage with three children instead of two. If she has any conerns about how you'll manage, then she ought to have put these to you, and listened to your answer. Perhaps you could ask her next time you're in touch with her whether she has any concerns about your sister staying on with you?

[laura355]

Hello again-It takes me so long to do anything these days!

Thank you for your response Robin, We're undecided if I want to be party to proceedings, firstly my husband and I both work full time and have little time or energy to do anything extra after all of the children's day to day care and extra activities! but more than that as much as I would like to know exactly what is going on behind the scences I really dont feel it would help us in any way. For 9 years my little sis has been failed by the system and her mother. I no longer have a relationship with my mum and do not want to spend a minute in the same room as her or her lawyer and advocate. But as you warned the sw did discourage us from applying?!

David, we are yet to be presented to the fostering panel but are being presented to the permanancy panel this week. We have had a sgo assessment form through the post regarding financial assisstance. The social worker and the manager have informed me we should get the basic foster care payment £143 per week minus the child benefit-is sis classed as our first or 3rd child? as we have been through that before!!! and minus tax credits, Im not sure how they will work this out either as we currently get more due to me being on maternity leave for 12 months but is usually the minimum £30 a month?. It is also to be reviewed so called every 12 months. I'm not sure I understand why it is reviewed if they make a commitment to pay towards bringing up the child? Its just another thing kept hushed to make you feel as though you are begging. The social worker who originally assessed us mentioned to get ss to agree to pay university fees but this hasn't been mentioned either?

Sis hasn't really got alot-well no other options when it comes to living with anyone else. Up until a few weeks ago sis was being led to believe she was going home and my mum would still think this was the case as sis has always has been returned. sis likes the freedom she had at her mums and would probably say she wanted to return home but I would wonder if someone arrived to collect her would she really want to go? At the weekend we had an afternoon 1st birthday party at our house and you could see how anxious sis was getting as people arrived. sis thought a house party was the scumbags of the estate arriving for a pi** up!

I have also had an invite to a kinship fostering day by my authority this week but yet my authority also informed me their are no specific family and friends care policies. I will go along to see what it is about as it may be some use later on!

Laura